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When to check-raise river?

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Outlaw

02-07-2009, 07:54 PM Post subject: When to check-raise river?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 1,033

Is a check-raise on the river more +ev or is valubetting better?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

SB ($9.10)
BB ($12.90)
UTG ($9.15)
MP ($3.25)
Hero (CO) ($11.75)
Button ($9.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J

, A

1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, Button calls $0.50, 2 folds, MP calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.65) A

, 4

, 7

(3 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.20, Button calls $1.20, 1 fold

Turn: ($4.05) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.70, Button calls $2.70

River: ($9.45) 8

(2 players)

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Stacks

02-07-2009, 08:20 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,605

Would really be hard to c/raise here since he has only like $6 left into a pot of $9. Most likely any bet from him would be a shove.

Outlaw

02-08-2009, 02:52 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 1,033

True, but is this a good spot to check?

Because our check might show weakness.. I thought this would be a spot the villain might try to bluff.. otherwise does he call any bet with a hand worse than ours?

Micro2Macro

02-08-2009, 03:32 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Outlaw

I think it is a better spot to bet because you might not be able to get a weaker hand to make a value bet with the 2 aces out there. If you check you may miss value out of something like 99,TT,JJ etc, and these hands might not bet at you because they have some showdown value and are afraid of the pair on board - but they may call a bet anyway. There is a flush draw though on the flop, so your opponent could have been on that. For me to check this river though I would want a read on my opponent that shows he bets busted draws/steals on river because he can't let a pot go. Unless that's the case, it's probably best just to bet. If a set/2 pair was flopped you probably would have heard about it by now.

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bigspenda73

02-08-2009, 03:40 AM

#5 (permalink)

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stick it in, get called by worse aces and hero called by worse hands and go YAY MONEY

kettleofish

02-08-2009, 03:23 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

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Location: Helllllo Richard

Posts: 333

Ya, against a donk or station it's a lot better to bet in these spots...

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($25.65)
MP ($1.85)
Hero (CO) ($30.80)
Button ($34.40)
SB ($27.15)
BB ($27.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

, K

2 folds, Hero raises $0.85, 2 folds, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.80) A

, 4

, A

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.25, BB calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.30) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4.30, BB calls $4.30

River: ($12.90) 3

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $24.40 (All-In), BB calls $21.45 (All-In)

Total pot: $55.80

Results in white below:
BB didn't show
Hero had A

, K

(three of a kind, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $56

Villain had A7 obv

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Outlaw

02-08-2009, 07:03 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 1,033

I just was sure my check on the river would mean to 1st/second level players that I must not have the ace.. there's no way I am checking trips. So if I am in his shoes I HAVE to bet my missed flush draws... also, would he really call a 3rd barrel with a hand that I am beating? If so plz name some hands...

Also since I can't have the ace, doesn't he valuebet 99/1010/JJ/ a worse ace because I may call with a lower pair or middle/bottom/counterfeited two-pair?

My gut told me I wasn't getting a call on the river here the way things played out.. so I thought my only chance was to get him to bluff. (my stomach gets me in trouble a lot: )

I know there are definately spots like that.. maybe this was a bad example... anyone got any good hands showing weakness on the river to induce a bluff?

Here is the hand as it really played out btw. I know now that even though it worked out, it probably wasn't the right play at this time. Minus reads I definitely bet out here next time.. don't ya hate gut feelings? lol

River: ($9.45) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $4.10, Hero raises to $7.35 (All-In), Button calls $1.45 (All-In)

Total pot: $20.55 | Rake: $0.85

Micro2Macro

02-08-2009, 07:20 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 4,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outlaw

Or the opponent could read it the other way and believe you are checking trips hoping he will bet. You can't assume anyone will bet a missed draw in this spot unless you have some sort of read on a past play that verifies this. Of course someone might call a 3rd bet here with a hand you beat: Weaker aces, JJ/TT/99 type hands that don't believe you have an ace. They will call with the lower pairs especially if they think you would have slowplayed the 3 aces.

Quote:

Also since I can't have the ace, doesn't he valuebet 99/1010/JJ/ a worse ace because I may call with a lower pair or middle/bottom/counterfeited two-pair?

Yeah he may...again this goes back to reads. Does opponent bet for thin value? It's too easy for someone to just check behind here and get a showdown if they are meek.

Quote:

I know there are definately spots like that.. maybe this was a bad example... anyone got any good hands showing weakness on the river to induce a bluff?

Yeah against an agg. opponent who I have READS on and I KNOW will bet busted draws, weaker hands and so on at the river. Just bet otherwise you'll get called enough on the river with weaker stuff.

02-09-2009, 01:13 AM

#9 (permalink)

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When to check-raise river?

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