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Fedora
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08-17-2009, 11:12 PM
Post subject: When to bet Draws??
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 91
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I have a fairly general question, and its, when do I bet draws?
Usually I just check or call if the pot odds are right, then when I hit, I bet, and then 90% of the time, everyone folds. And thats working out, but my EV could definitely be better.
From reading hands on here and watching poker on tv, I know there's times when a bet with a big draw is the best play, say a straight and a flush draw on the flop. However, I don't know whats the best time to do it.
Any insights here would be helpful. Thanks
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It depends. You have to take into account your position, stack sizes, limped pot/raised pot/3bet pot, the type of draw you have and the type of villain(s) your up against.
In general, be more willing to bet and raise your draws IP against weak-tight players (which might win you the pot right there) and/or players with equal stack sizes (who might pay you off when you hit). Be less willing to semi-bluff your small draws against calling stations and players who are short-stacked. With your big draws like an OESFD or a flush draw with a pair, be willing to get it in on the flop.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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At its most basic, you bet a draw when you also believe you have fold equity, that is, you think theres a fair chance your opponent will fold to make up for the times you dont hit your draw.
A combo draw on the other hand, can often be a favorite. An OESD + FD on the flop is 54% against a TP or overpair type hand, so you bet and raise because you're actually a favorite to win. A gutshot + FD is only about 45%, but that often means you already have pot odds to draw so any fold equity on top is just a bonus. Betting and raising these combo draws also helps balance the times you bet and raise with 2P+ made hands as well, but at micro stakes thats more of a secondary consideration. Really you should bet when you think its profitable baring in mind fold equity. You may also bet just to help build a pot. For instance in a limped pot you might bet just so that if you hit you can win a bigger pot.
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Just playing to improve.
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Fedora
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 91
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So betting a draw is like a semi bluff right??
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Donkafelts
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 115
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Betting a draw is the defenition of a semi bluff. When making a bet with a draw, like Bj said, make sure you have fold equity because flush or straight draws have less equity than your opponent in a HU pot. Big point about betting your draws is to not bet into an opponent who has a high chance of raising you. When you bet and get raised on a semi bluff you often turn a very profitable situation in to a at best marginally profitable spot.
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linaker
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 70
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With a draw you can also make a kind of blocking bet. If you have a flush draw say, and passive opponents who are unlikely to raise, then if the pot is 40c, you can bet 10c. Very often, no-one will raise and you build the pot in case you hit your draw and you are also getting the correct odds for your bet.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Remember this. You can bet a shitload of ridiculously weak draws if villain will play passively.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
Remember this. You can bet a shitload of ridiculously weak draws if villain will play passively.
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Or with air. Just sayin... 
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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One other situation you should be draws is where, even if you have no fold equity whatsoever, you have a big enough draw that you have pot odds to justify a bet.
For instance, suppose you call a pre-flop raise from a nit (raising range, AA and KK) with 9c8c. The flop is 7c 6c 2h. Well, at this point you are actually a favorite (usually about 55 percent) to win the pot, even though you are currently "behind" (in the sense that you don't have a made hand and your opponent does).
Well, if you know that the nit is calling with his or her high pocket pair so you don't have any fold equity, any money you are getting into that pot is going to be justified by the pot odds (because you are better than even money to win the hand). So no problem betting a draw in that situation either.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nutty McMutt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
Remember this. You can bet a shitload of ridiculously weak draws if villain will play passively.
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Or with air. Just sayin... |
Meh, not really. True, if we want to raise with 100% frequency which is rarely the case.
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Donkafelts
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 115
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[quote="LawDude"]One other situation you should be draws is where, even if you have no fold equity whatsoever, you have a big enough draw that you have pot odds to justify a bet.
For instance, suppose you call a pre-flop raise from a nit (raising range, AA and KK) with 9c8c. The flop is 7c 6c 2h. Well, at this point you are actually a favorite (usually about 55 percent) to win the pot, even though you are currently "behind" (in the sense that you don't have a made hand and your opponent does).
That's a really specific example that's pretty unrealistic and just generally rare. Note that if same situation happened, but the flop was 8s 7c 2c and you truly had NO fold equity whatsoever betting would be wrong because thanks to rake and possible backdoor flush draws for villain you have slightly less than 50% equity.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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[quote="Donkafelts"]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LawDude
One other situation you should be draws is where, even if you have no fold equity whatsoever, you have a big enough draw that you have pot odds to justify a bet.
For instance, suppose you call a pre-flop raise from a nit (raising range, AA and KK) with 9c8c. The flop is 7c 6c 2h. Well, at this point you are actually a favorite (usually about 55 percent) to win the pot, even though you are currently "behind" (in the sense that you don't have a made hand and your opponent does).
That's a really specific example that's pretty unrealistic and just generally rare. Note that if same situation happened, but the flop was 8s 7c 2c and you truly had NO fold equity whatsoever betting would be wrong because thanks to rake and possible backdoor flush draws for villain you have slightly less than 50% equity.
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I deliberately constructed a ridiculous example. But there are plenty of situations where your pot odds on a bet will be greater than your equity in the hand, even if you aren't better than even money to win the hand. In particular, just about any straight-flush draw in a multi-way pot is going to present this situation.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Here are the two instances I bet draws:
1. My draw is so strong there is no way in hell I am giving up my equity. IE. Open ended with a FD, two overs with the nut or second nut FD, or a pair and a FD or OESD. In these cases I don't give a flying flip what the board looks like as long as it isn't paired. I am going all the way and screw you if you call my bets. No examples necessary, this is self explanitory.
2. I have a decent draw and the board doesn't hit villain's range very well. Tons of fold equity= big payouts over time. Example: I was playing live yesterday (mtt) and the nit utg raised 3.5xBB. It folded to me on the button with 23s, I called.. the flop is A59, giving me a gutshot and backdoor FD. He checks the flop, I fire pot, he calls.. turn bricks, he checks, I fire 2/3 pot.. he mucks his KK face up and says, "always a f@#$! ace when I have kings!"
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