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When amounts dont matter?

  
 
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Miffed22001
Old 12-21-2005, 06:12 AM     Post subject: When amounts dont matter? #1 (permalink)  
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 Quick recap of my career.
In sept i went bak to uni and was unable to play poker, that has now changed. Up until that point i was rolled to play 100NL and 200NL only 20 buy ins for 200nl so i wasnt ready, i only dabbled so to speak. Despite this i had only been playing reguarly for about 4 months so iwas doing goot.
I cashed out my roll in sept and then redeposited at sevral sites to play 25nl and 50nl and work up several rolls. The problem ive developed, while i am running bad (and i mean bad) is that having played 200NL the bets at 50nl mean very little to me! Odd. Is there any way to get over this or do i have to work to be mentally tougher.
Id be interested to know how people who have many buy ins at certain limits eg Biondino (i think!) has a massive roll for the limits he plays.
How does thsi affect your mindset?
For bad beatz i have a minutes cry then get back to it, but how about you attitude to bet sizes etc?
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finky
Old 12-21-2005, 12:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Personally i need to care about the money to play my A game, but not so much that i'm scared to stick it all in. I've cashed out a lot but I always keep at least 3-4K spead across a few accounts playing 100NL and 200NL .

If you have the roll and skill to play higher limits why aren't you? It will sharpen your game and make you more $$$
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bdawg56kg
Old 12-21-2005, 07:24 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Yep, I know what you mean. When I first started out, I was only bankrolled for the penny tables, but even up to 10NL the money didn't mean anything. I had no respect for a $.40 preflop raise. So I moved up to 25NL where the money actually mattered a bit more. But in your case I don't think you really have a choice but to keep grinding it out until you have the roll to move up again. Maybe you could try moving up a little sooner, say with just 15 buy ins. It will not be such a big jump since you have experience at the higher limits and you (probably) are not playing with scared money.
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BankItDrew
Old 12-21-2005, 08:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I rationalize the bets in accordance to the blinds at all levels.

A 5xbb raise @ 10NL is the same to me as a 5xbb @ 100NL. I may care a hell of a lot more about a 5xbb raise @ 100 than @ 10, but if I call with AQ at one - I'll do the same for the other. I'll play AA and KK and 22 the same way as well.


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Rondavu
Old 12-21-2005, 09:17 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I don't recommend playing several different sites at the same time. Pick one and do it. I have access to like 20 different poker sites which I've played at various times. One time I had money on 5 sites. It was a disaster which effected my bankroll as a whole. I consolidated the money on one site and my bankroll shot through the ceiling.
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Les_Worm
Old 12-21-2005, 09:28 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Talk to UG. I think he is (or was) way overrolled for a while.
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UG
Old 12-22-2005, 12:23 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Yup, I am currently VERY overrolled for the current stakes I'm playing. I always have been, and probably always will. I played only NL25 until my BR was up well over 3k. I played NL50 for a while but then skipped that level quickly to make the jump to NL100. That's where I currently am, with 110+ buy-ins to my name.

I've done this for a number of reasons. Originally I was very happy with my profits at NL25. Making $25-50 per night was a huge deal to me. I didn't want to walk away from those profits and have the chance of breaking even or losing money...So I stayed where I was comfortable. After a while, making $25-50 wasn't that big of a deal. I wanted to make more, so I moved up in stakes. I went (almost) directly to NL100, where I made decent profits from the word go. Now I'm averaging around $140-175 a night in profits. Slowly, but surely, it's starting those profits aren't as "big of a deal" to me anymore, so I'll be making the jump up in stakes soon to a higher level.

Another reason I stayed at my current levels for so long, which goes along with my first reason, is that the money still meant something to me. I can remember playing some NL25 with a 4-5k BR (bonus whoring) and losing $35 on a hand and being *pissed* about it. I knew I couldn't make the jump until those things didn't matter as much anymore.

The last it takes me so long to move up...Is because I'm viewing this in the long-term. It's a marathon, not a race. I just started playing poker in March so I still feel like I have a lot to learn. Am I dreaming big? Hell yes I am, but I don't have to be there right *now*. I'll sit back and gain experience at levels where I am comfortable, and at levels where the money still means something to me. Within the next six months I should start bigger and bigger money.

And that's the key. You've got to play where the money matters to you, bro. At some point NL25 became boring to me. Wouldn't you know it that I started paying people off more often when I was behind. "Ehh, it's only $10 more to call his check raise on the river. He has a straight, I'm sure, but I'm going to call it on the fact he might be bluffing." Stupid crap like that. Like someone else already said in this thread, "You've got to play stakes that mean something to you (but not too much) in order for you to play your 'A' game."

My advice? Grind your BR up so you can play the levels that you should be playing. Be smart. Be disciplined. Having beaten the NL100 and NL200 game you should be able to destroy NL25 again and you'll be ready for NL100 within a month or two.

I know I rambled a lot up there, but hopefully it helped. Good luck.


 
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rubixstreub
Old 12-22-2005, 03:32 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
I just started playing poker in March so I still feel like I have a lot to learn.
You started playing in March, but joined FTR in January.....
or you mean March of '04?

I'm right there with you, overolled for my stakes, but PT says I'm not making money (outside of bonuses) so I gotta stay Micro limit. Good view on long term, I'm in no hurry, the profits will come eventually.
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UG
Old 12-22-2005, 05:45 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubixstreub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
I just started playing poker in March so I still feel like I have a lot to learn.
You started playing in March, but joined FTR in January.....
or you mean March of '04?

I'm right there with you, overolled for my stakes, but PT says I'm not making money (outside of bonuses) so I gotta stay Micro limit. Good view on long term, I'm in no hurry, the profits will come eventually.
Ehh, okay, you got me.

I started playing poker with friends in August '04. Back then I thought hands like JQo were unstoppable (OMFG I HAVE TWO PAINT CARDS). I started reading up on the game in December '04 and joined FTR in January '05. I then made my first online deposit in January '05 and was a break even player, playing nothing but micro-stakes and $5 SNG's, until March 10th.

On that day Ilikeaces86 BR'ed me after teaching me how to beat NL Ring. I now consider March 10th, 2005, to be my poker "birth day" if you will. Before then I was just a mindless fetus or something, lol.


 
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biondino
Old 12-22-2005, 11:34 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Miffed, as you asked me specifically I'm happy to answer, though George and others have already replied better than I can.

Fundamentally, I am still a mostly-winning £25NL/$50NL player. However, I have had, and am still having, downswings caused by both variance and bad play which indicate to me that I am not destroying even £25 (my main limit), and that there are many areas where my game still comes up short. I have now gone three months playing poker that, through variance, has left me at the same BR I was at at the start of October. I can only think that were I mainly playing $50 or $100 (where I would ideally like to be), I would likely have lost a substantial amount.

Secondly is the fact that $50 is almost universally seen as a rock garden. While I built up most of my bankroll playing a semi-loose aggressive game, I am aware that I have tightened up a lot lately and I would probably not have either an inbuilt LAggy advantage or the balls t0 vary my play as required at higher levels.

Third, and probably most important of the lot, is that I am determined to remain a hobby player. I don't want to be in the position where I need to play poker to earn money. I already feel the pressure that comes with mild addiction to play poker whenever I have free time; but my life priorities (as well as those of my girlfriend ) mean that this doesn't sit comfortably with my time.

£25NL doesn't yet bore me - sure, it frustrates me a lot, and I have been sorely tempted to start a thread where we can list the kind of mistakes and bad play that the average 25 players uses - an example being making small bets as a move to rep a monster, where you know that 75% of your opponents will unthinkingly see the small bet as either a demonstration of weakness or as offering too-attractive pot odds for them to fold. But back to the point - it is still a challenge, yet I can still make money more often than not, so I don't have a huge desire or need to move up.

So, I second George. You need to convince yourself to take the amounts seriously. It only really takes a mixture of habit and discipline - you're clearly good enough to impose that discipline, so write yourself notes, chant a mantra, whatever it takes to take it seriously.
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Cocco_Bill
Old 12-22-2005, 01:16 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Yup, I am currently VERY overrolled for the current stakes I'm playing.
There is no such thing as being overrolled....

If you believe that your $/hr will increase by moving up, then do so, otherwise don't.
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UG
Old 12-22-2005, 06:42 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Yup, I am currently VERY overrolled for the current stakes I'm playing.
There is no such thing as being overrolled....

If you believe that your $/hr will increase by moving up, then do so, otherwise don't.
That's the thing. It may increase, but it might not. Right now I'm hitting it up for about a $30/hr clip. I'm okay with that.


 
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Miffed22001
Old 12-23-2005, 11:00 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 Exellent suggestions guys thankyou.
I think my thread was from a mixture of bad discipline (for once!) bad play and a nasty run of outdraws on big hands.
Still the advice is exellent and very telling.
Ive decided to put some cash together and play 100NL slight short bankrolled, 15 buy ins. Hopefully the return to thse stakes will see my play improve
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UG
Old 12-23-2005, 11:49 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Exellent suggestions guys thankyou.
I think my thread was from a mixture of bad discipline (for once!) bad play and a nasty run of outdraws on big hands.
Still the advice is exellent and very telling.
Ive decided to put some cash together and play 100NL slight short bankrolled, 15 buy ins. Hopefully the return to thse stakes will see my play improve
The number of buy-ins you need definitely depends on the style that you play. Me? I play a super-Tagg style. It's not camping, but it's not a loose style by any means. I think the biggest downswing I've had so far has only been $400 (knock on wood), and I've been playing these stakes for about 4-5 months now. I had an eight or nine buy-in downswing at NL25 once too.

Now if you're playing a "Rippy Style" you definitely want to have quite a few buy-ins to back you up...So, just know your style and figure out if your "short BR" can sustain the type of game you play.


 
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Miffed22001
Old 12-24-2005, 12:17 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Exellent suggestions guys thankyou.
I think my thread was from a mixture of bad discipline (for once!) bad play and a nasty run of outdraws on big hands.
Still the advice is exellent and very telling.
Ive decided to put some cash together and play 100NL slight short bankrolled, 15 buy ins. Hopefully the return to thse stakes will see my play improve
The number of buy-ins you need definitely depends on the style that you play. Me? I play a super-Tagg style. It's not camping, but it's not a loose style by any means. I think the biggest downswing I've had so far has only been $400 (knock on wood), and I've been playing these stakes for about 4-5 months now. I had an eight or nine buy-in downswing at NL25 once too.

Now if you're playing a "Rippy Style" you definitely want to have quite a few buy-ins to back you up...So, just know your style and figure out if your "short BR" can sustain the type of game you play.
Yes this is something ive definalty taken into consideration.
My style is very swingy simply because of the marginal situations i eitehr find myself in or put opponents to. The key feature i guess is that i play stacks A LOT so being up a lot or down a lot is a feature of my play.
SO i spent a few days deleting hands from my style i shudnt be playing whil im short, so while as you say, i wont be camping ill be seeing fewer flops and taking advantage of fewer points where i detect weakness.
Ive also considered buying in for 75% of the stack to compensate, but im not particularly fond of this idea.
Thanks for the comments though george. very helpfull.
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