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LimpinAintEZ
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06-22-2007, 05:06 PM
Post subject: whats the play when PFraiser "instachecks" the flo
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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I've notice a lot lately that I will be heads up against a preflop raiser and when the flop comes out with big cards they instantly check....A lot of times they are going for check raises it seems and the insta check gives this away - it kinda makes me laugh -
is it profitable to take the free card here when we suspect the flop hit our opponent hard? Or is it better to bet a bit and try to take it down then? - I usually go with the smallish bet and am readily prepared to fold - im at 50NL and even though i'm aggro, im not sure how many players are busy "setting me up"....i play pretty aggro and tend to bet in position anyway -
just in general though, do you all notice this often? Do you try to buy the pot, or do you just take the free card and hope to improve later?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Depends... on how tight or aggro he is and whether I've seen him check raise before. If he's tight passive, I'll generally bet, but if he's loose aggro I more likely take the free card, but then I'll mix it up against both for balance. If you always check when it hasn't hit you then you are exploitable, but you are also exploitable if you always bet when checked to, so you need to keep em guessing.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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if I missed, I just check as well. This is a bit like the minbet people make, I've called down minbeats and someone flopped a set while I had a tpgk. They will lead turn if they hit, its hard for them not to.
If you don't have a good read to bluff at a raised pot, I prefer taking the free card.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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i tend to practice some blind aggression sometimes - No intentions of putting in anything more than a stab...of course im usually just throwing away a 1/2pot bet i guess....the reason i like to bet and then fold to the raise is they think they can do that again later (i like to give the Impression that i can be pushed around)...but maybe that is just wasteful spewing -
Is betting for image a good thing? I find myself betting bluffs and monsters the same way often, but lately its been causing me to take down the small pots with big hands which i really don't like 
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OarChambo
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bowling Green, OHIO
Posts: 22
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I am a big fan of the check in the dark when OOP. Since there is no such thing as a check in the dark in online poker the insta check is plan B. Speaking as someone who is an insta-checker I have found the check in the dark OOP to be a profitable move as I can get out of hands very easily if I missed, but if I hit [or successfully bluff] and have checked in the dark [or insta-checked] the success I have had makes the move a profitable one. My opponent never knows if I hit or not until the turn. If they don't want to risk being pushed out on the flop [since betting is typically a 50/50 gamble] I get a free card on the flop and a better understanding of where I stand in the hand come the turn.
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"I don't gamble, I invest."
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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i don't know - i think its a insta giveaway myself i can't pick up too many tells but that is one of them i notice all the time....then again, im not getting into a big pot anyway unless i have something, so it doesn't do them much good against me...i'll stab but let it go afterwards....maybe other players love bluffing more thoguh -
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gingerwizard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,815
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OarChambo
I am a big fan of the check in the dark when OOP. Since there is no such thing as a check in the dark in online poker the insta check is plan B. Speaking as someone who is an insta-checker I have found the check in the dark OOP to be a profitable move as I can get out of hands very easily if I missed, but if I hit [or successfully bluff] and have checked in the dark [or insta-checked] the success I have had makes the move a profitable one. My opponent never knows if I hit or not until the turn. If they don't want to risk being pushed out on the flop [since betting is typically a 50/50 gamble] I get a free card on the flop and a better understanding of where I stand in the hand come the turn.
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Check in the dark is a dumb move and totally the opposite of aggressive.
Say you hit the flop big and you need to start getting all your money in now....oh wait too late you checked in the dark.
Say you hit TPTK or have an overpair and want to pay opponents to draw to the flush sitting there......oh wait you checked in the dark.
Say your opponent hasn't hit much of anything and folds to a cbet 70% of the time. You could pick up the pot right here...but oh wait, you checked in the dark and now he gets a free card to hit.
It's a trick I see all the time when I play live. The pf raiser will shout "check blind" just before the dealer deals the flop. FOOLS.
How is betting at you 50/50 when your pf raise indicates a starting hand range? How is not value betting good hands and pricing in draws profitable? How does your opponent know if you hit your hand if you cbet 80%?
Sorry to flame you, but since you are posting on here then i'll assume you want to make money, and checking dark is one way to CERTAINLY give up a fair bit of EV.
Here's another classic from the world of idiotic live plays (this one comes up in tournaments). before the hand is dealt: "I'M ALL IN BLIND!" hee haw!
Take my advice. Look at the flop, look at your hand, formulate a plan and maximise your EV. Stopping pussying around trying to confuse your opponents and start extracting $$ from them.
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