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Anosmic
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06-30-2006, 07:24 AM
Post subject: What's a good PTBB/100 rate?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Okay, a bit of a "how long is a piece of string?" question and yes, there's probably a theoretical maximum (actually I don't suppose there is...) but I'm looking for realisitc targets.
Now I'd take any + as being good, but I also remember AOK saying that if you're not frequently up x buy-ins after a 3/4 tabling session (obviously variance, but a reasonable session) then you've got leaks (or am I misquoting?).
So what's a good, sustainable PTBB/100 at various levels? $5, $10, $25, $50 (all NL), does it vary much with sites? How many hands represent a real sample?
I'm not sure if it's a stupid question, but I¨d be interested in any numbers peopel want to throw out.
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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um 7-8 at 25nl i don't know over how big of a size but if i could kill the 200nl-400nl game for 5ptbb over a long haul i would be happy
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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I have made a new perspective on this matter recently. I used to think I should get my winrate as high as possible, but now I've basically resigned in the fact that from time to time, I *will* donk off some buy-ins.. not card variance, but making plays you normally never make. Take them all as variance, and put in more hours.. then a 15ptBB/100 at 10NL (3tabling 6max) seems nicely sustainable (I have this clocked at 20k hands now) and it gradually goes down as limits go up.
I also figured that once you play higher stakes, like 200NL and up.. you don't even need to be a big winner to make good money. Just put in the time and play enough tables consistently.
Let's say you can run at 3 ptBB/100 at 600NL playing 4 shorthanded tables.. that's about $100/hour.. and you put in 4 hours per day.. that'd be $12k per month. That's sick 
What I'm trying to say is.. maybe it's also a good idea to look at the absolutes. Let's say you can run at 12 ptBB/100 at a given stake playing 2 tables, or 8 ptBB/100 playing 4 tables. If you play 80 hands per hour per table (average for shorthanded for me) then in an hour of play, the former would net you 19.2 BBs and the latter 25.6 BBs.. much better for you BR even though your winrate dropped 50%!
Or something similar, such as my observation from above, that if you only play when you feel picture-perfect and calm, and your winrate is 20 ptBB/100.. or if you play whenever you don't feel totally shitty, your winrate is, say, 13 ptBB/100 but you can put in 3x the time.. then the latter is "better" as in, you make more money.
Just something to think about.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Muxy
if i could kill the 200nl-400nl game for 5ptbb over a long haul i would be happy
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I would erect a statue of myself in my fron garden if I could do this at 400NL.
At 25NL I would say 7-8 is good ya. 5-6 is perfectly reasonable.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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If I had made say 50% of the tilty, dumb mistakes I've made, my BB/100 would be well over 10. As it is, it's 6, over about 70,000 hands at £25 and $25, and I *suppose* I'm okay with that.
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djzcko
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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At $25nl, I am 11BB/100 over 27k hands and at $50nl 7.5BB/100 13k hands. Both are fairly respectable and would consider them better than average. I do, however, have a lot of room to improve so they could be even better than that. I'd say that 25k hands is the minimum you want to play before making any long-term declarations about how profitable you can play. I've played mostly Poker Room and Stars and did not see much of a difference in winrate although the players are very different.
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Setzy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 399
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Mine is just below 6 at 60k hands of 25nl, 8-9 tabling.
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Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Setzy
Mine is just below 6 at 60k hands of 25nl, 8-9 tabling.
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(6 * 2($.25) * 60000)/100 = $1800
move up?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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winrate is so relative depending on skill, table selection, and how well you are running.
At micro's 7-8ptbb/100 is good. At middle stakes games more like 3-5ptbb/100 is good over a large sample.
Also its lower at full table than at shorthanded.
Also its lower on stars than on party.
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Setzy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 399
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Setzy
Mine is just below 6 at 60k hands of 25nl, 8-9 tabling.
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(6 * 2($.25) * 60000)/100 = $1800
move up? |
Convince me.
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Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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because you are clearly skilled and rolled for 100nl.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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This is +ev.
Do you see why? :P (and you had better answer yes btw!)
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Smoooth
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07-01-2006, 03:30 AM
Post subject: Re: What's a good PTBB/100 rate?
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#13 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
How many hands represent a real sample?
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This is something I'd like to know too.
I started playing 25$NL and got 14BB/100 over 500 hands before I realised my BR wasn't high enough for this level($100).
So I moved down to 5$NL and have played 1500 hands for 20bb/100. I originally planned to move up to 10$NL if I got to $200. But if I manage to keep this rate up I will get there in only 2000 hands. What if I'm just lucky and keep getting lucky?
Should I wait til I have a certain number of hands played and a proven rate? Or should I just move up regardless as long as I have the BR?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smoooth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
How many hands represent a real sample?
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This is something I'd like to know too.
I started playing 25$NL and got 14BB/100 over 500 hands before I realised my BR wasn't high enough for this level($100).
So I moved down to 5$NL and have played 1500 hands for 20bb/100. I originally planned to move up to 10$NL if I got to $200. But if I manage to keep this rate up I will get there in only 2000 hands. What if I'm just lucky and keep getting lucky?
Should I wait til I have a certain number of hands played and a proven rate? Or should I just move up regardless as long as I have the BR? |
A 'real' sample is like 500k hands or some far off target like that to know your true win rate.
However lets be realistic.
In the limit forum it is suggested you play 15k hands minimum at each new stakes then move up after the completion of 15k hands or when your br permits.
I use this rule for nl too, so if i play 15k hands at 10bbs/100 or wateva then i move up with the br in hand.
Of course, then you need to satisfy your needs for br management.
A lot of players are still playing 25nl with 1k+ bankrolls which flabergasts me but if thats how ppl want to play then thats ok by me.
So, 15k at any level would be my answer as a minimum sample amount, but i cant emphasise enough how important it really is to move up if you have the br and are winning.
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Werddown
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 302
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Setzy
Mine is just below 6 at 60k hands of 25nl, 8-9 tabling.
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(6 * 2($.25) * 60000)/100 = $1800
move up? |
Can someone explain why you multiply by two?
I suck at math, and I've been trying to figure out the bb/100 calculation forever... I just cant make logical sense of it.
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grnydrowave2
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Showin' mah Pokemans
Posts: 651
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Werddown
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Setzy
Mine is just below 6 at 60k hands of 25nl, 8-9 tabling.
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(6 * 2($.25) * 60000)/100 = $1800
move up? |
Can someone explain why you multiply by two?
I suck at math, and I've been trying to figure out the bb/100 calculation forever... I just cant make logical sense of it. |
There is no calculation. bb/100 is just how many big blinds you are earning per 100 hands. ptbb/100 is PokerTracker big bets per 100 hands (a ptbb is equal to 2 big blinds). The above calculation is just determining how much money was earned over 60,000 hands at 6ptbb/100, so he multiplied the big blind by 2.
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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Werddown
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 302
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ahhh okay, its big bets, not big blinds.
it all makes sense now!!
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