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jyms

08-17-2008, 04:27 AM Post subject: What's a fish?

#1 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

Alright, let's eliminate the 60+/5/1.2 fish we all know and love. Every table and every site does not have an abundance of these(1/2 the table) past $50NL and they start to dwindle, since any moron with internet either goes broke or learns to fold preflop. Sure they are all the way up to and including $100/$200 but They are not the only donaters. I think we can spot others by stats or reads and find plenty of other flavors of fish in the sea.

What are some of the other things your looking for as far as players on your right? Or on your left for small ball? Maybe we can find some of our own leaks in these fish thoughts.

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Stacks

08-17-2008, 04:36 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,605

I like to isolate alot in LP, so a player that limps alot, but has a rather high fold to c-bet% is rather ideal. Or ones who love to limp/fold. And i find that alot at 50nl on stars. Players either limp/fold, or limp/call, check/fold. So that's fun

..

Also a player that is incredily passive on all streets (AF 1ish) makes things very easy. You can build a pot when you want because they tend to still call with shit, but you can also keep it small when you need to.

I have a question, well regarding the fish you stated (High vp$ip and low pfr). I realize we need to attack these players, and assume isolating their limps with any hand with potential is a good way to do this. But what about the rare times they raise? Should we tend to 3b them lighter, or just increase our calling range?? I'm rather sure it's the second, just never been told for sure. So still 3b our value hands but instead of 3b bluffing just add in alot of those hands into our calling range (suited aces, suited one gappers, etc)?

dev

08-17-2008, 04:36 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

20/19/4
cbets like a monkey (remarkably similar to my stats, but no one seems to exploit it, so I just keep doing it)

Check out my self-deprecation here!

dev

08-17-2008, 05:13 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

This is actually the inspiration for my avatar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

I have a question, well regarding the fish you stated (High vp$ip and low pfr). I realize we need to attack these players, and assume isolating their limps with any hand with potential is a good way to do this. But what about the rare times they raise? Should we tend to 3b them lighter, or just increase our calling range?? I'm rather sure it's the second, just never been told for sure. So still 3b our value hands but instead of 3b bluffing just add in alot of those hands into our calling range (suited aces, suited one gappers, etc)?

They have a low pfr, so they're not raising much, when they do they tend to have the goods. If we're deep we can set hunt and maybe play Scs, certainly 3bet big hands, because they're probably not good enough to fold any part of their range.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

Vrax

08-17-2008, 10:06 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

Went to Showdown %.

Showdown Hater
20/3/1.5/18% - weak tight nit - bet him off his limps and PF calls, until he gets frustrated and do something stupid

Postflop Klepto
18/7/(3.5-5.0)/(18-25)% - taggish stabber, who learned, that some pots can be for sale, but he won't commit light (this is key). Check a lot of flops to him after being PFR, then make a big pot threat if he takes a stab at "rags board".

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

Miffed22001

08-17-2008, 11:38 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

fold blinds too much vs steal

Doesnt c-bet enough

Only raises when he can beat top pair, otherwise calls it down

players who bet flop and never 2nd barrel turn without hand

Players who assume a flop check = weakness and spew turn and river oop

players who limp at any stage in a nl cash game - (my favourite)

Vrax

08-17-2008, 12:24 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

players who limp at any stage in a nl cash game - (my favourite)

How is overlimping in multiway pots fishy? In soft games, there are lot of situations, where potting preflop will be spew, but overlimping will be profitable.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

zook

08-17-2008, 04:02 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

most players playing only one table

BigBadBull

08-22-2008, 02:06 PM

#9 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 103

Few things I have on my HUD that helps a bunch:

3bet%- both too high nd too low % are highly exploitable.

cbet%- high cbet% guys fold 75% of the time if they do not cbet. Also helps me look at repoping them on the flop.

fold to cbet- self explanatory, helps you pick up pots with air a lot.

To help me with barreling I have fold percentages per street(dont even remember what the stat is called in HM), but its how often they fold to flp, trn and rvr bets. The fold stats are probably those I look at the most and these often make a difference between a delay cbet/fold and a double barrel.

Jager

08-22-2008, 02:10 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 754

W$WSF below 40 AND a W$SD above 50

Any player on my left with a fold BB of 80+

"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."

yourfather

08-22-2008, 03:13 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: In your fridge

Posts: 603

Fish that valuetown themselves with mediocre hands

Robb

08-23-2008, 03:20 AM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

dev is right

miffed is very right

I also will add that I like sitting to the left of anyone who limps a lot and raises about 10%, i.e. 25/10 or 35/12. Every time they limp, you can rule out any premium hand (all pp's, most good aces and kings), and isolate like all heck.

TAGG's are exploitable - I like the 14/12/3's the best. On my left, he can't hurt me much. To my right, I can stack him if the cards fall correctly and otherwise steal enough orphan pots to make his life miserable.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

dev

08-23-2008, 05:21 AM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

TAGG's are exploitable - I like the 14/12/3's the best. On my left, he can't hurt me much. To my right, I can stack him if the cards fall correctly and otherwise steal enough orphan pots to make his life miserable.

The best is when they get frustrated and stack off for no reason. I've got 2k hands on a guy running 12/9/2 who stacked off on the turn with unimproved 44 to me tonight.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

daven

08-23-2008, 06:19 AM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

fish are relative.
I'm a fish at 200nl+, any stakes omaha or stud, anytime I'm deeper than 300bb, etc.
a wannabe at 50nl and 100nl (i.e. slowly becoming less of a fish)
perhaps close to solid at micro-micro stakes.

If a fish is someone who can be exploited, then most of us are fish...
so if you are inside the game of a player, that turns them into a fish against you - even if they are a solid player in the context of their stake/game.

thoughts on how to really play the player to exploit?

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ts-t75167.html

some standard leaks that turn someone into a fish:
* most important - bad bankroll management
and others:
* 3-bet loads, fold to 4-bets too often
* no blind defence
* defends blinds by calling
* limited range variation by position
* poor pot-odds play with draws
* pays out when draws hit too much
* doesn't 3-bet enough
* slow plays too much
* level 1
* thinking that opp's entire stack is available to justify calls with "implied odds"
* not varying play by opponents
* not understanding effective stack sizes (when you're 200bb deep and villain has 60bb - then realise you're no longer 200deep in that hand!)
* lack of pot-size/bet-size manipulation
* respond to difficult situations by folding = most multi-tabling regs
* wannabe lags who get all 20-17 preflop but don't understand post-flop
and the list goes on
......
i think that any of the leaks described here or by others is worthy of a whole thread. Playing the player is probably the best place for it...

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

mixchange

08-23-2008, 06:48 AM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

most players playing only one table

this

bigspenda73

08-23-2008, 07:21 AM

#16 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ember4921.html

bjsaust

08-24-2008, 11:46 PM

#17 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

I found a new one tonight, the TAG who cant let go.

Playing 10/9 but could never fold postflop. Stacked off with unimproved AK multiple times (unfortunately never to me).

The 30/10s are generally good money.

People who turn good hands into bluffs (I can feel happy calling in marginal spots).

Very high donk bet %.

Very high steal limped pot %.

Just playing to improve.

Da GOAT

08-25-2008, 08:38 AM

#18 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Dublin

Posts: 4,308

its basically tagfish!!!

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

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