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Chopper
Old 11-14-2007, 06:01 PM     Post subject: and, what's the deal with... #1 (permalink)  
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post whatever you want here, but i have a serious one.

whats the deal with all the minraising? i sit at 25's and i havent seen so much.

i cbet...get minraised.

i raise...get minRRed.

i raise pre-flop...often times a 3bet is a min3bet.

wtf?

is this just donkeys that dont know how to bet...or are begging to get paid off...or begging for a RR so they can slam you AI? if they knew how it tilted me sometimes, they would do it all the time.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 11-14-2007, 06:18 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 it's a cheap cheap cheap bluff or a hand with showdown value being held by a player who does not know what to do with it.

It is rarely a set/monster anymore, it is typically a medium-strength hand or a bluff from a nit. Listen, scared money doesn't min-raise, they're too worried about being sucked-out on, they raise big when they hit, and that's when we fold.

I might do a video where everytime I get minraised I just shove over the top, just to see.
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martindcx1e
Old 11-14-2007, 06:39 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I might do a video where everytime I get minraised I just shove over the top, just to see.
lol awesome please do.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 11-14-2007, 06:43 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 it'd probably be at like $10nl cuz I'm such a nit and don't wanna blow my roll doing it.

I could also just be content to call them down instead of shoving over, but that would not be nearly as much fun.
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EricE
Old 11-14-2007, 06:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Hmmm. I have been treating it seriously. I am currently at $25 (thinking of moving up). Maybe I should devalue it a bit eh.
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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miracleriver
Old 11-14-2007, 06:46 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
it'd probably be at like $10nl cuz I'm such a nit and don't wanna blow my roll doing it.

I could also just be content to call them down instead of shoving over, but that would not be nearly as much fun.
either way would be fine. you could actually mix it.
 
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Warpe
Old 11-14-2007, 08:05 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
it's a cheap cheap cheap bluff or a hand with showdown value being held by a player who does not know what to do with it.

It is rarely a set/monster anymore, it is typically a medium-strength hand or a bluff from a nit. Listen, scared money doesn't min-raise, they're too worried about being sucked-out on, they raise big when they hit, and that's when we fold.

I might do a video where everytime I get minraised I just shove over the top, just to see.
True a lot/most of the time, but thinking like this is also why minraising the goods against aggressive players can be great way to get them to stick their stacks in. Put it in your arsenal for selective use and beware minraises from tricky players.



 
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Chopper
Old 11-14-2007, 08:38 PM #8 (permalink)  
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as you have said before, spenda, generalities are not great for dynamic things like poker.

but, as a rule/default play, i like the idea of calling them more often.

and, i would LOVE to see a vid where you are only targeting the minraise, and call/push/whatever...and describe why.

kind of "minraising bastards 101."
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 11-15-2007, 02:02 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 IME, 98% of the time its a flopped set.

The other 2%, its by a maniac who does it waaaaaaay too often.
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JL
Old 11-15-2007, 07:50 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
IME, 98% of the time its a flopped set.
No way.
A MR on the flop could be anything.

On a dry flop, it is almost never a set.

On the other hand, a MR on the turn is a set a lot of the time.

Btw, what is IME? In my experience?
I've never seen that before...I thought it was a typo, lol.
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martindcx1e
Old 11-15-2007, 03:08 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
IME, 98% of the time its a flopped set.
my recent 1/2 stacking adventures have shown me this is not the case.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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ChrisTheFish
Old 11-15-2007, 03:18 PM #12 (permalink)  
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20% big hand, 60% weak ish hand looking to slow you down and get to showdown. 20% bluff (mostly in bigger pots)
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Chopper
Old 11-15-2007, 05:00 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
it's a cheap cheap cheap bluff or a hand with showdown value being held by a player who does not know what to do with it.
now that we may have this squared away...i agreed and have felt this all along...how do we effectively deal with it?

if its sd-value, its not folding, but how strong is it?

if its a cheap bluff, a RR should take care of that. but, we cant really do it with air now can we?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 11-15-2007, 05:31 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 lol I'm rethinking my thoughts after last night's session.

I shoved flush draws 3 times vs minraises and was up against 2pr+ each time. Oooooooooops

Also, ONE TIME LEE!

But that's a small sample-size, I've seen air turn up just as much.
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martindcx1e
Old 11-15-2007, 05:54 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
if its sd-value, its not folding
this isn't true. something like KJo on a K67 board has showdown value and may minraise you to check turn and try for a cheap showdown, but it's not calling a shove.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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ChrisTheFish
Old 11-15-2007, 06:47 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
if its sd-value, its not folding
this isn't true. something like KJo on a K67 board has showdown value and may minraise you to check turn and try for a cheap showdown, but it's not calling a shove.
ORLY
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martindcx1e
Old 11-15-2007, 08:09 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisTheFish
Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
if its sd-value, its not folding
this isn't true. something like KJo on a K67 board has showdown value and may minraise you to check turn and try for a cheap showdown, but it's not calling a shove.
ORLY
yes really. showdown value doesn't have to equal a 200bb pot worthy hand.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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Chopper
Old 11-15-2007, 09:10 PM #18 (permalink)  
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i disagree a little bit. these guys call with tons of crap they shouldnt.

i would think i have FE against this holding, maybe not to a flop raise, but still...who stacks off with TPNK that i should be afraid of?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($21.15)
Button ($24.75)
SB ($13.60)
BB ($37.35)
UTG ($24.65)
MP ($7)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, A.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) J, Q, 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.5, BB raises to $5, Hero raises to $20.15, BB calls $15.15.

Turn: ($42.40) 3 (2 players)

River: ($42.40) 2 (2 players)

Final Pot: $42.40

care to guess what the donkey had? i'll provide a hint...this guy was 85/30/4 (do you realize just HOW aggressive you have to be to carry a 4 when seeing 85% of your flops?). i looked this up afterwards. what range can you put him on with that flop raise (i bet i'm still good against it)? i had him completely random pre-flop.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 11-16-2007, 05:09 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 K2o


and btw, that's not a minraise
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martindcx1e
Old 11-16-2007, 06:17 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
i disagree a little bit. these guys call with tons of crap they shouldnt.

i would think i have FE against this holding, maybe not to a flop raise, but still...who stacks off with TPNK that i should be afraid of?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($21.15)
Button ($24.75)
SB ($13.60)
BB ($37.35)
UTG ($24.65)
MP ($7)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, A.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) J, Q, 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.5, BB raises to $5, Hero raises to $20.15, BB calls $15.15.

Turn: ($42.40) 3 (2 players)

River: ($42.40) 2 (2 players)

Final Pot: $42.40

care to guess what the donkey had? i'll provide a hint...this guy was 85/30/4 (do you realize just HOW aggressive you have to be to carry a 4 when seeing 85% of your flops?). i looked this up afterwards. what range can you put him on with that flop raise (i bet i'm still good against it)? i had him completely random pre-flop.
If he had a weak Q then this would be an exception as most players don't stack off with TP weak kicker, unless maybe you play at bodog or ongame or something.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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Chopper
Old 11-16-2007, 06:17 PM #21 (permalink)  
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yeah, i know it wasnt a minraise. i was showing more about having no FE here. i realize that isnt entirely consistent with the main topic of the thread...sorry.

he had Q8 clubs. seriously, though, can you call that with TPNK? if they call with that, they may call with anything.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 11-16-2007, 06:28 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer, in another thread
Just one thing to say: too many calling stations on the lower stakes, who simply won't ever fold under any circumstances.

I think they go all ecstatic when they catch someone bluffing (HA! THOUGHT U WOULD PUSH ME OFF THIS POT? THINK AGAIN!! NOONE BLUFFS MEE!), or get into tarp mode with big hands and will still check/call/ grandiose river allin, and simply will never ever fold


vbet 'em to death. do not bluff the unbluffable.
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martindcx1e
Old 11-16-2007, 06:54 PM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer, in another thread
vbet 'em to death. do not bluff the unbluffable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e in another thread
Every time you bluff a calling station, Nickelback releases another single.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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