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kevster
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01-25-2009, 11:02 AM
Post subject: What's the best line here.....?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fold City
Posts: 758
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Opp is 17/12 over a decent enough sample. No specific reads. Having called pre for set value I've got an overpair so what's the best line to take?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP2 ($66.70)
CO ($23.35)
Button ($43.50)
Hero (SB) ($15.30)
BB ($4.55)
UTG ($4.75)
UTG+1 ($25.35)
MP1 ($29.95)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 , 9
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button raises to $2, Hero calls $1.90, 3 folds
Flop: ($4.75) 3 , 7, 5 (2 players)
Hero?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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explain how you called PF for set value please
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kevster
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fold City
Posts: 758
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
explain how you called PF for set value please
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Damn you! Not enough in my stack right?
Ok, so I've called like an idiot. Now what?
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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I c/c flop and some turns.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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probably c/f the flop if you set-mined and missed
however I might bet/fold or c/r or c/c and shove turn or c/c and c/f turn or c/c and c/c a shove on the turn. The options are endless.
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kevster
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fold City
Posts: 758
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
probably c/f the flop if you set-mined and missed
however I might bet/fold or c/r or c/c and shove turn or c/c and c/f turn or c/c and c/c a shove on the turn. The options are endless.
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ok, so I bet out got re-raised and folded. Reviewed this afterwards and thought the check/call might gave been a better option. Not terrible though?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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so you set-mined and lost 1/3rd of your stack w/o seeing a showdown. Next time make sure you factor that into your set-mining odds.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
so you set-mined and lost 1/3rd of your stack w/o seeing a showdown. Next time make sure you factor that into your set-mining odds.
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nice
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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check fold...
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hangchiong
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 359
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set odds is pretty bad here.
why are we not on full stack?
c/c or b/f will be good.
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inƒamous
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 62
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kevster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
explain how you called PF for set value please
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Damn you! Not enough in my stack right?
Ok, so I've called like an idiot. Now what? |
Am curious the odds of flopping a set are somewhere in the 7.ish-1 so basically 8-1. Yes in Harrington on cash he goes for somewhere in the 20-1 ratio in stacks. Am thinking this is a built in buffer for all the times his opponents fold to a b/f on the turn when he raises? Is this why? My question here is what implied odds does everyone look for when set mining. Maybe I am just unlucky but it seems like forever since someone would stack off to me with top top or an overpair when I hit a set. As the game has changed has your set mining odds changed at all? If not what are you still looking for?
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Sir Pawnalot
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
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Fold preflop. Your stack is to small to gain enough information on later streets and you are beating no pairs. (Sensible opponent)
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A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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table selection infamous!!! i see you multi tabling a lot of the times on tons of tables and a lot of them are nit tables... you gotta select tables with super donks!!.. i have a few dime dispensers that i look for and follow around (i hope to get some quarter dispensers soon)
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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are people serious about c/f? what is wrong with everyone? i think given stack sizes c/r is the best play...
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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are we check/shoving here?.. i don't see any other hand that would call except hands that have us beat... only thing we have beat in villains range is AK
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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check/call most check shove if he has to call off his draws.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Erpel
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
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Btw, if I may comment on Spenda's comment. I think what Spenda is trying to do here is berate sloppy thought processes and people parrotting concepts talked about by other people without understanding how, why and when they apply.
OP in this post could have said that the combination of set odds and the ability to play this hand profitably to a showdown unimproved in some situations makes it overall profitable to call preflop - this would then have triggered a different discussion. Specifically, I think we would then be talking if we should be 3betting 99 OOP PF.
In the present situation the line I prefer is to check/shove. We have an overpair, villain will cbet often with air (lots of FE) and call a shove often with draws (with good equity on calling range) and the SPR is slightly less than 3.
The stack size we play results in an SPR that makes it a trivial stack-off decision, and that should be one of the main reasons we play this stack size. If we mistakenly think that we're playing for set odds here, then there's a huge gap in our basic strategy. If we don't understand exactly why our stack size makes this a trivial decision we also shouldn't be playing this stack size.
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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First off, he's raising from the button... so his range is possibly pretty wide (ATS would be helpful here). If he's stealing 30% of the time, only like 2% of his range will stack off here, and if he's even a better tagg, he may not stack off at all... so this is another reason to get away from set odds... The other issue is stack size, and other people have covered that pretty well. I think a c/c and shove turn or c/rai flop is the best.
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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Sorry, his squeezing range could be pretty wide... raise limpers from BU or ATS is still helpful.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by inƒamous
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kevster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
explain how you called PF for set value please
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Damn you! Not enough in my stack right?
Ok, so I've called like an idiot. Now what? |
Am curious the odds of flopping a set are somewhere in the 7.ish-1 so basically 8-1. Yes in Harrington on cash he goes for somewhere in the 20-1 ratio in stacks. Am thinking this is a built in buffer for all the times his opponents fold to a b/f on the turn when he raises? Is this why? My question here is what implied odds does everyone look for when set mining. Maybe I am just unlucky but it seems like forever since someone would stack off to me with top top or an overpair when I hit a set. As the game has changed has your set mining odds changed at all? If not what are you still looking for? |
We had this chat at the table we were playing at. When I said you didn't get odds to call your set. I was calculating needing to get about 10x the bet you called. By giving yourself a little bit of a buffer, you can handle being setoversetted and whatnot.
In the "learning starts here" section there's a really good post about setmining.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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