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what would you read into these notes.

  
 
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celtic123
Old 09-18-2009, 06:04 AM     Post subject: what would you read into these notes. #1 (permalink)  
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A player turns up at the table and I see these notes on him.

" In EP 5XBB QJs,
Called my 5xbb with 77 @ button,stayed with me when he misse the flop,
mini bets when he has second pair,giving me good pot odds,
perhps i should raise with air"

I now this villain is a regularz and multies 4 tables.
This is my thoughts when i see these notes.

In EP 5XBB QJs
he mixes his game up.

Called my 5xbb with 77 @ button,stayed with me when he misse the flop,
im not sure how to adust my cbets ,say he hits is trips!

mini bets when he has second pair,giving me good pot odds,
perhps i should raise with air"


standard.

Am i taking the correct sort of notes?

And are my thoughts on my notes anywhere near accurate?

Pleasee critisize and help me .

Thank you.
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XTR1000
Old 09-18-2009, 09:29 AM #2 (permalink)  
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The note regarding 77 is useless with no info about board texture.

Noting him vbetting somewhat thinly (?) is valuable (which street was it?, Board texture?) as you can make more correct river decisions. Bluffraising air is an option, but mind what you´re representing, usually you just cant go ahead and randomly bluff raise people just b/c you saw them once vbetting a non-nitty range.
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Stacks
Old 09-18-2009, 10:41 AM #3 (permalink)  
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First off, I like this kind of thread idea. Many people don't take good notes, and when they do, they still fail to understand how to implement the notes they do take. They either don't adjust their ranges accordingly or do so incorrectly, which is obviously a bad thing.

QJs 5x open... You really can't read too much into this without more information. I supposed you can assume he understands the value of hands like suited connectors, and possibly has a wider than average range. Some questions to ask would be... Is 5x his standard opening size? Have you seen him vary his opening size based on hand strength, such as only 3xing AA?

Keep in mind there could be a fair amount of factors resulting in his 5x open. There could have been a limper/poster than you forgot to mention. There could have been an uber fish, in which case this guy was trying to build a pot. Etc. Kinda depends on the context of the rest of the situation.

I agree with XTR on the 77 hand.. Board texture is pretty important here to dive into any real conclusions. It's standard to call a cbet with 77 on say a 255 board, or other similar board textures, so him calling the flop without hitting a set doesn't tell us much. On the turn, I'm assuming you check/called, in which case (board texture is still important) we can come to some more conclusions.

When we see him calling the flop with marginal hands, and then willing to bet the turn with those marginal hands, we can make a few assumptions and adjust our ranges accordingly. We know his flop calling range isn't terrible strong (depending on board texture). Given this, and knowing whether he is willing to fold those hands to further action or not, we can make more accurate turn/river decisions.

Say he calls the flop with a fair amount of marginal hands, floats, etc, and is capable of folding to subsequent turn/river action. Well in that case, on the turn his range is somewhat wide. Therefore, we can increase the frequency with which we double barrel bluff, as the range that he is folding to a turn bluff likely makes the bluff +EV. This would be different than if he folded marginal hands on the flop, and didn't float. Then his turn range would be stronger, and therefore, less likely to fold, making a double barrel bluff less profitable.

When he bets those marginal hands on the turn when checked to (board texture relevant), we can decide that his turn betting range when checked to isn't incredibly strong either, and therefore also expand our turn check/calling range. We can take some of the marginal hands that we would normally c/f the turn with because he is expected to check back his mid pair, underpair type hands with, and instead check/call because he is betting those hands.
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celtic123
Old 09-22-2009, 08:54 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XTR1000
The note regarding 77 is useless with no info about board texture.

Noting him vbetting somewhat thinly (?) is valuable (which street was it?, Board texture?) as you can make more correct river decisions. Bluffraising air is an option, but mind what you´re representing, usually you just cant go ahead and randomly bluff raise people just b/c you saw them once vbetting a non-nitty range.
Ok, My note taking to date has mainly been based on preflop events, then they get vauger post flop.and and note taking is done live , straight after the hand is finished.

I mainly look for villians having leaks p/f , to help me narrow down their 2 cards, this is obviously insufficient.

Thnks for your reply.
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celtic123
Old 09-22-2009, 09:27 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

QJs 5x open... You really can't read too much into this without more information. I supposed you can assume he understands the value of hands like suited connectors, and possibly has a wider than average range. Some questions to ask would be... Is 5x his standard opening size? Have you seen him vary his opening size based on hand strength, such as only 3xing AA?

.
I see, quickly jotted live notes really are no good.I should be looking more closer. and expnding to post flop.tu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Keep in mind there could be a fair amount of factors resulting in his 5x open. There could have been a limper/poster than you forgot to mention. There could have been an uber fish, in which case this guy was trying to build a pot. Etc. Kinda depends on the context of the rest of the situation...........
I'm assuming you check/called, in which case (board texture is still important) we can come to some more conclusions.
great input. I should be looking at the bigger picture..ive never put a full analasis in my notes.

seems a mammoth task.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX


When we see him calling the flop with marginal hands, and then willing to bet the turn with those marginal hands, we can make a few assumptions and adjust our ranges accordingly. We know his flop calling range isn't terrible strong (depending on board texture). Given this, and knowing whether he is willing to fold those hands to further action or not, we can make more accurate turn/river decisions.

Say he calls the flop with a fair amount of marginal hands, floats, etc, and is capable of folding to subsequent turn/river action. Well in that case, on the turn his range is somewhat wide. Therefore, we can increase the frequency with which we double barrel bluff, as the range that he is folding to a turn bluff likely makes the bluff +EV. This would be different than if he folded marginal hands on the flop, and didn't float. Then his turn range would be stronger, and therefore, less likely to fold, making a double barrel bluff less profitable.

When he bets those marginal hands on the turn when checked to (board texture relevant), we can decide that his turn betting range when checked to isn't incredibly strong either, and therefore also expand our turn check/calling range. We can take some of the marginal hands that we would normally c/f the turn with because he is expected to check back his mid pair, underpair type hands with, and instead check/call because he is betting those hands.
I have a lot of homework to do. Ist a hame the hand converter int s Betfair compatabel
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daven
Old 09-22-2009, 10:07 AM #6 (permalink)  
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ok, i just opened up the poker client to look at some notes i have on players. Very few regs are on right now cos the servers are going down for maintenance in the next few minutes. I probably end up taking more notes on fish than regs, which is kinda wrong...

Anyway, a sample

1:
17-14-5 solid plays up to 3-6
bb 3-bet k7o vs sb steal
button call ATs vs co steal, call A22, check 9 turn behind, call 6 river

2:
44 ip set safe board, call, call, 2/3 pot river

3:
36-0
lc J9s, c 346 flop, c-c Q fd turn, c blank river
huge 3-bet JJ, call shove

4:
sb limp 9T, c-shove oesd

5:
FT pro, 10-9-5, starcraft pro, 12-tabling, post-flop bet-fold type. Tourney player. Improving
 
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:19 AM #7 (permalink)  
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was it elky or grrrr?
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ColdDecked
Old 09-22-2009, 10:48 AM #8 (permalink)  
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elky's ps right? but I'm pretty sure grrrr... plays most of his on ps too. Lotta sc pros turned poker pro when they realized poker earnings >>>>> sc earnings.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:02 AM #9 (permalink)  
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yeah, that
and you don't even have to play 15 hours a day!
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daven
Old 09-22-2009, 01:59 PM #10 (permalink)  
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some korean guy, somyung sim
 
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