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What turn card am i looking for to two barrel?

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AFchung

01-03-2009, 03:10 PM Post subject: What turn card am i looking for to two barrel?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

I thought he had top pair and i could push him off of it with that scary turn card. With a closer look though, it completes straight and flush draws which are certainly in his range so I think that this was a bad turn card to double barrel.

What types of cards are we looking for when we double barrel?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

BB ($12.40)
UTG ($10.75)
UTG+1 ($2.10)
MP1 ($2.95)
Hero (MP2) ($10.85)
MP3 ($12.85)
CO ($4.05)
Button ($1.85)
SB ($5.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4

, 4

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.90) 10

, 5

, 6

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.60, SB calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.10) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.20, SB raises to $4.20, Hero folds

Total pot: $4.50 | Rake: $0.20

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d0zer

01-03-2009, 04:01 PM Post subject: Re: What turn card am i looking for to two barrel?

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 2,519

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

Sounds like you're aware of having made the mistake of putting him on a single hand instead of a range of hands including straight & flush draws.

Given his stack size I'm going to assume he's a bit of a donk, so his range after calling the flop could be fairly wide (including 5x,6x), but if we don't know he floats that light or calls pre that light then Tx, 77-99, FD, OESD, + 2pr+ isn't a bad range I think. A lot of that range hit the

or is already too strong to fold out.

Also keep in mind that looser halfstacks will almost never lay down Tx here even with the flush & straights coming in, so I would be very rarely inclined to double-barrel this board if I think Tx makes up a lot of his range, but if I was going to, it would haf to be with a non-diamond J-A which would probably scare 6x, 5x, 77-99 out unless villain is the loosest mega-donk, in which case we probably shouldn't even be c-betting. Holy run-on sentence batman!

Vrax

01-03-2009, 04:42 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

1. Don't try to bluff loose morons off their top pair hands.
2. Avoid playing chicken with players, who threw their steering wheel off the window.
3. Pay attention to range, not "that specific hand". Be it villain's range or yours.

That turn is horrific spot to 2nd barrel. And it's great spot for villain to bluffraise you, because that turn bitchslaps his range.

ISF theory and game theory gives the answer: The card, that greatly improves equity of your perceived range vs opponent's range.

like: you have tight image, open in early position with pretty strong range {99+, AQ+, AJs} and c-bet headsup Txy flushdraw board and get callled by tightish player, who likes gamble for small bets with some floats here and there. You put him on range in {22-JJ, 45s-JTs}

If turn is offsuit A,K,Q, maybe J, then your equity improves. If villain at least has some idea, what cards are played usually by early position preflop raiser, he will lay down all middle pairs and maybe flushdraws, which is probably majority of his range.

If turn is x, y, or 3rd of suit, then it's not good spot to bluff with your range, because villain's range improved better, than yours. In fact, it's great spot for villain to pull a bluffraise on turn - even when he missed with one part of range, he can represent another part of it.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

kmind

01-03-2009, 07:09 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

9d is a horrible card. Put him on a range and think about what kind of cards would (should) put enough heat on him and make him fold. If a FD is in his range than usually when it completes it's a bad card. When an undercard falls and we think he has TP then it's a bad card. Both of these are in his range making this a pretty bad card. If you think he'll call with FD two streets then you might have to be prepared to triple barrel him. You have to know what kind of suited cards he calls with because depending on the player an Ace could be a great card to double/triple barrel but if he's one to likely call with the nut flush draw on a T65 two toned board then the A will hit his range a lot. Again it all depends on ranges and if it hits more of their range as opposed to yours.

In this case I think a Kc and Qs would be a great turn/river combo which puts pressure on any one pair T and makes a lot of FD fold.

battlewagon

01-04-2009, 05:14 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 4

I go back to something that Phil Laak said (and I'm sure he was quoting someone else but not sure who) - never bluff at a flop where there is a J or a 10. There are just too many people (according to Negreanu's book) that play those two cards specifically to bluff.

Don't crucify me for saying that - I'm a newbie and am trying to learn from all sources....

a500lbgorilla

01-04-2009, 05:47 PM

#6 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

i would check behind on the flop.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

kmind

01-04-2009, 06:37 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i would check behind on the flop.

This too.

I was just trying to get into barrelling though. But yeah we really need to be checking the flop.

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What turn card am i looking for to two barrel?

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