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What is the stats of a good player? What do you have?

  
 
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Borax
Old 03-30-2005, 09:57 AM     Post subject: What is the stats of a good player? What do you have? #1 (permalink)  
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I have just purchased Pokertracker and so far I have only put in 838 hands.

My stats for these hands are:

VP$IP = 20.17 %
W$WSF = 29.49 %
PFR% = 3.34 %
W$SD = 62.22 %


How can this tell me if my over all strategy is good?
What values would a good player have and what should I try to improve first? What values do you guys have?
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JeffreyGB
Old 03-30-2005, 03:19 PM #2 (permalink)  
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838 hands will tell you almost nothing - that's such a tiny sample.

Over 12,000 hands, I'm seeing these numbers:
VP$IP = 25.56% (that's actually higher than I'm playing though, due to 7000 hands of .10/.25 w/ 27% outweighing my current 22%)
W$WSF = 35.66%
PFR% = 5.14%
W$SD = 46.93%

The only thing that I can make any remote comments on is PFR. I tend to feel like I'm a rather reserved player (as successful NL players go). So with my PFR% being 5.14%, I'd think you'd want yours to be at least 5%. Then again, just one dry run of cards during those 838 hands could make this number pretty screwy - making your 3.34% tolerable.

I guess I'd say you should pay attention and make sure you're aggressive when you have the cards. Aside from that, build a bigger database and analyze from there
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Bo G
Old 03-30-2005, 06:33 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Sorry for a stupid question but what do those acronyms stand for?
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mojoNOgo
Old 03-30-2005, 06:46 PM #4 (permalink)  
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VP$IP = voluntarily put $ into Pot
W$WSF = won money when see'n the flop
PFR% = pre-flop raise %
w$SD = won $ at the showdown
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Bo G
Old 03-30-2005, 06:49 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Thank you.
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ilikeaces86
Old 03-30-2005, 06:51 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 5% PFR is a must.
 
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JeffreyGB
Old 03-30-2005, 06:56 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
5% PFR is a must.
No more, no less?
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Cocco_Bill
Old 03-30-2005, 06:57 PM #8 (permalink)  
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my stats over last ~6000 hands

Showdowns won 58%
win % of flops seen 33%
No of flops seen 22% (experimenting with playing as tight as possible)
No of games won 8%
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Bo G
Old 03-30-2005, 09:12 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 What do you guys look at when using Poker Tracker?
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Pyroxene
Old 03-30-2005, 09:48 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
5% PFR is a must.
No more, no less?
At the risk of putting words in Ace's mouth, 5% is a minimum.
Pyroxene
 
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ilikeaces86
Old 03-30-2005, 10:48 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
No of flops seen 22% (experimenting with playing as tight as possible)
That is kind of funny. That is like as loose as I can possibly play.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 03-30-2005, 11:56 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
No of flops seen 22% (experimenting with playing as tight as possible)
That is kind of funny. That is like as loose as I can possibly play.
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Borax
Old 03-31-2005, 08:45 AM #13 (permalink)  
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ok so PFR% > 5% should be a goal and I guess a logical number for W$SD would be > 50% if you want to make money

I know I only have very few hands still, but it will increase pretty fast.
For example I have no hand of pocket KK in the numbers so far...
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studboyjoe
Old 04-02-2005, 02:30 PM #14 (permalink)  
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your stats so far:

VP$IP: good
PFR%: need to increase
W$WSF: 33% would be a good goal
%W@showdown: excellent

I have 10,000 PT hands, and I am below 60% win @ showdown and at %24 VP$IP, i probably shouldn't complete SB as much as I do. I'm at 35% W%WSF, and I'm okay with that. PFR is at
5.5%, could be higher, I see lots of players with >8%, some at 12%! Some of the 12% are listed as maniacs, though. PT is a great tool, you will see
your progression as a player as you tally your results month by month. When I started, I was at like 2.5% PFR, sooooo passive.
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Gatlin Dan
Old 04-02-2005, 02:42 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studboyjoe
When I started, I was at like 2.5% PFR, sooooo passive.
You raised AA, KK, AK, QQ and that's it, right? That's tight. Mine is okay but I want it to be higher. I've been working on that. Here's my stats:
13K hands at .5/1

VP$IP: 17.02
PFR%: 7.68
W$WSF: 33.45
%W@SD: 50.38
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Hubris1
Old 04-02-2005, 10:40 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Pstars, 20k hands, ranging up to .5/1, most are at .25/.50 and .10/.25

VP$IP 16.66%
BB/100 15.29
Won $ at SD 63.14
PFR 9.04
AF/TOT 2.1
Won $ WSF: 27.45

And I think BB/100 and AF/TOT are more important statistics than won $ WSF and some of the other statistics you're looking for.
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Hubris1
Old 04-02-2005, 10:43 PM #17 (permalink)  
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As a side note, get the most out of Ptracker by hooking up the pop3 and autorequest features. I found subconciously I'd usually quit out of disgust and not put in my hands if I had a losing night and I was always eager to do it if I had a winning night. The auto update stuff is just too damn cool.
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Caesar
Old 04-04-2005, 01:53 AM #18 (permalink)  

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After 5 days of quite alot of SnG's my stats are

Flops seen: 29%
Win% of flops seen: 39%
Showdowns won: 56%

Still, I'm losing, and I'm not sure why.
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JeffreyGB
Old 04-04-2005, 05:02 AM #19 (permalink)  
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SnGs are tricky beasts. Just winning most of your hands won't make you a winning player, and just losing most of your hands won't make you a losing player (though the latter will more often be a valid cause/result).

Possible SnG problems (from what I know I've screwed up doing):
- Trying to make moves when you shouldn't/don't need to
- Failing to make moves when you can and should
- Failing to read the table well enough to properly execute steals
- Failing to read your opponents bluffs vs made hands when they try to make a move

Post some histories in the tournament history section. You'll be surprised how helpful it can be.
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Borax
Old 04-04-2005, 08:50 AM #20 (permalink)  
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I found this interesting link about Tracker stats:

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/p...as-a-beginner/
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studboyjoe
Old 04-04-2005, 02:27 PM #21 (permalink)  
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great article, Borax, thanks for posting it. I think it applies more to beginner limit than no-limit, as I think 1-2BB/hour wouldn't be an impressive no-limit stat.
(although for beginners, not bad I guess)
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Cocco_Bill
Old 04-04-2005, 02:42 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borax
I found this interesting link about Tracker stats:

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/p...as-a-beginner/
No offense, but I find those presented stats utterly useless..
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Old 04-04-2005, 04:33 PM #23 (permalink)  
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ilikeaces86
Old 04-04-2005, 04:38 PM #24 (permalink)  
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 and keeping track of your winnings
 
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Old 04-04-2005, 04:42 PM #25 (permalink)  
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hagakure
Old 04-04-2005, 05:34 PM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
you can keep track of your winnings just as easily on an excel spreadsheet. Poker Tracker is just going to tell you where your game is 'lacking' and what aspects you need to correct which in my opinion is the first step to becoming a robot. There is no rhyme or reason to this game. Know your basic odds, but don't be a slave to statistics and percentages.

There is just as much psychology involved as math in no limit holdem...in fact MORE. So dump that Poker Tracker crap in the recycle bin before you morph into a silicon based unit and become a robot
So, by your definition, the first step toward becoming a robot is to notice where your game is lacking and see what aspects you need to correct? Sounds a lot like learning to be a better player to me. Usually when I'm not successful in any given venture, I try to figure out where my method(s) are lacking and see which aspects I need to correct to see a positive return. If that's the first step toward becoming a robot then every single successful person on the face of the earth is a robot.

There is certainly rhyme and reason to this game. Is there rhyme and reason at an online .1/.2 cent table? Probably not. At a B&M 2/4 table? Not really. But poker in general has definate rhyme or reason. If it didn't, then 22 would be just as deadly preflop as AA. And when playing online you can totally disregard a lot of the psychological aspect of poker. You don't have near the ability to read a person when you cannot see them as you would when you are looking them in the face. We all know that the phych level of the game changes as you play different levels too. $2000.00 NL is going to be way more phychological than 2/4 Limit.
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Zangief
Old 04-04-2005, 07:35 PM #27 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hagakure
Usually when I'm not successful in any given venture, I try to figure out where my method(s) are lacking and see which aspects I need to correct to see a positive return. If that's the first step toward becoming a robot then every single successful person on the face of the earth is a robot.
You'd be surprised how many "successful" people are actually just very lucky. This is especially true in environments where randomness determines a large part of "success", such as trading stocks. I read a book about this called "Fooled by Randomness". Check it out for some interesting reading that's definitely related to poker:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...362531-7504639

I found this mentioned in some issue of CardPlayer Magazine. I think it was in Bob Ciaffone's column.
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Borax
Old 04-25-2005, 02:06 PM     Post subject: Re: What is the stats of a good player? What do you have? #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borax
I have just purchased Pokertracker and so far I have only put in 838 hands.

My stats for these hands are:

VP$IP = 20.17 %
W$WSF = 29.49 %
PFR% = 3.34 %
W$SD = 62.22 %


How can this tell me if my over all strategy is good?
What values would a good player have and what should I try to improve first? What values do you guys have?

An update on my stats after 7000 hands, to compare:
VP$IP = 22.88 %
W$WSF = 31.59 %
PFR% = 4.27 %
W$SD = 63.11 %
BB/100 = 8.66

7000 hands is still not much, but it's more than 838
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JeffreyGB
Old 04-25-2005, 03:17 PM     Post subject: Re: What is the stats of a good player? What do you have? #29 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borax
An update on my stats after 7000 hands, to compare:
VP$IP = 22.88 %
W$WSF = 31.59 %
PFR% = 4.27 %
W$SD = 63.11 %
BB/100 = 8.66

7000 hands is still not much, but it's more than 838
Looking up, but your PFR still seems low. If you have a good hand, pump it!
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