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What should be corrected in playing those premiums?

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Vrax

10-03-2005, 06:03 PM Post subject: What should be corrected in playing those premiums?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

This session was one big slick fest, even my rockets got cracked by AK (allins preflop)

I know, those hands may be pretty boring, but those situations (missed flop on AK, hit flop ang get raised, hit draw, hit gutshot+overs, getting reraised preflop) were my weakest points, I dont want to get destacked by some dumb mistake...

What about postflop play in those hands?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #110490943 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Mon Oct 03 17:53:28 2005

mutti1 is at seat 1 with 4.97
Ruro is at seat 2 with 9.95
Victorino1 is at seat 3 with 17.47
_Vrax_ is at seat 4 with 22.90
Napocska is at seat 5 with 24.57
joker4802 is at seat 6 with 8.95
bean49 is at seat 7 with 26.97
lenin111 is at seat 8 with 8.26
Dr_Hate is at seat 9 with 13.19

Victorino1 posts the large blind 0.25
Ruro posts the small blind 0.12

Ruro: --, --
Victorino1: --, --
_Vrax_: Ah, Qc
Napocska: --, --
joker4802: --, --
bean49: --, --
lenin111: --, --
Dr_Hate: --, --
mutti1: --, --

Pre-flop:

_Vrax_: Raise 0.75
Napocska: Fold
joker4802: Call 0.75
bean49: Call 0.75
lenin111: Call 0.75
Dr_Hate: Fold
mutti1: Call 0.75
Ruro: Call 0.75
Victorino1: Fold

Flop (Board: 3c, 5c, 8c):

Ruro: Check
_Vrax_: Check
joker4802: Bet 0.50
bean49: Call 0.50
lenin111: Fold
mutti1: Call 0.50
Ruro: Fold
_Vrax_: Call 0.50

Turn (Board: 3c, 5c, 8c, 3s):

_Vrax_: Check
joker4802: Bet 0.25
bean49: Call 0.25
mutti1: Call 0.25
_Vrax_: Call 0.25

River (Board: 3c, 5c, 8c, 3s, Qh):

_Vrax_: Check
joker4802: Check
bean49: Bet 0.25
mutti1: Fold
_Vrax_: Call 0.25
joker4802: Call 0.25

Showdown:

bean49 shows: 8h, Kh (two pair, Eights and Threes)
_Vrax_ shows: Ah, Qc (two pair, Queens and Threes)

Mainpot:
_Vrax_ wins the pot of 8.10 with two pair, Queens and Threes

(0.40 rake were taken for this hand)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #110498391 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Mon Oct 03 18:08:34 2005

Prounder is at seat 1 with 25.00
alacant is at seat 2 with 9.75
Dr_Hate is at seat 3 with 11.92
szfinx is at seat 4 with 22.66
gatuso is at seat 5 with 26.27
Big H 1716 is at seat 6 with 19.83
761176a is at seat 7 with 23.48
Souhund is at seat 8 with 17.01
_Vrax_ is at seat 9 with 21.00
niptuck is at seat 10 with 28.46

_Vrax_ posts the large blind 0.25
Souhund posts the small blind 0.12

Souhund: --, --
_Vrax_: Kh, As
niptuck: --, --
alacant: --, --
Dr_Hate: --, --
szfinx: --, --
gatuso: --, --
Big H 1716: --, --
761176a: --, --

Pre-flop:

niptuck: Call 0.25
alacant: Check
Dr_Hate: Call 0.25
szfinx: Fold
gatuso: Raise 1.00
Big H 1716: Call 1.00
761176a: Call 1.00
Souhund: Fold
_Vrax_: Call 1.00
niptuck: Call 1.00
alacant: Fold
Dr_Hate: Call 1.00

Flop (Board: Ah, 10d, 7h):

_Vrax_: Bet 2.00
niptuck: Fold
Dr_Hate: Fold
gatuso: Raise 4.00
Big H 1716: Call 4.00
761176a: Fold
_Vrax_: Raise 8.00
gatuso: Call 8.00
Big H 1716: Call 8.00

Turn (Board: Ah, 10d, 7h, 5d):

_Vrax_: All in (impulsive push, not sure if correct)
gatuso: Call 12.25
Big H 1716: All in

River (Board: Ah, 10d, 7h, 5d, 4c):

Showdown:

gatuso shows his sucker naked ace and gets kick in the ass: 3s, Ac (a pair of Aces)
_Vrax_ shows: Kh, As (a pair of Aces)

Sidepot 2:
_Vrax_ wins the pot of 1.34 with a pair of Aces, King kicker.

Big H 1716 shows: Ad, 8d (a pair of Aces)

Mainpot:
_Vrax_ wins the pot of 61.36 with a pair of Aces, King kicker.

(3.00 rake were taken for this hand)

---------------------------------
Hand #110502181 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Mon Oct 03 18:15:54 2005

Trojanec is at seat 1 with 9.75
Ruro is at seat 2 with 11.37
DED71 is at seat 3 with 9.47
_Vrax_ is at seat 4 with 28.26
Napocska is at seat 5 with 44.66
Deuzdezept is at seat 6 with 14.23
bean49 is at seat 7 with 24.43
lenin111 is at seat 8 with 13.89
Dr_Hate is at seat 9 with 16.93
dancer1 is at seat 10 with 15.00

Dr_Hate posts the large blind 0.25
bean49 posts the small blind 0.12

bean49: --, --
Dr_Hate: --, --
dancer1: --, --
Trojanec: --, --
Ruro: --, --
DED71: --, --
_Vrax_: Ah, Kd
Napocska: --, --
Deuzdezept: --, --

Pre-flop:

dancer1: Fold
Trojanec: Fold
Ruro: Call 0.25
DED71: Call 0.25
_Vrax_: Raise 1.25
Napocska: Raise 4.00
Deuzdezept: Fold
bean49: Fold
Dr_Hate: Fold
Ruro: Fold
DED71: Fold
_Vrax_: Fold (good laydown? I was afraid aces and kings and my slick wasnt sooted so good draw would be harder to flop)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #110504187 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Mon Oct 03 18:19:39 2005

Tshilly is at seat 1 with 11.72
Momme DK is at seat 2 with 10.54
_Vrax_ is at seat 3 with 40.86
derora is at seat 4 with 11.88
5čme As is at seat 5 with 21.75
Ruro is at seat 6 with 14.72
Preze$ is at seat 7 with 47.04
JimmyBaby is at seat 8 with 27.15
flowrabbas is at seat 9 with 2.88
Nyanyo is at seat 10 with 45.89

Nyanyo posts the large blind 0.25
flowrabbas posts the small blind 0.12

flowrabbas: --, --
Nyanyo: --, --
Tshilly: --, --
Momme DK: --, --
_Vrax_: Qd, Kd
derora: --, --
5čme As: --, --
Ruro: --, --
Preze$: --, --

Pre-flop:

Tshilly: Fold
Momme DK: Call 0.25
_Vrax_: Raise 1.00 (I hate limping preflop and play my premium against 6 opps)
derora: Fold
5čme As: Fold
Ruro: Fold
Preze$: Fold
flowrabbas: Call 1.00
Nyanyo: Call 1.00
Momme DK: Call 1.00

Flop (Board: 8d, 3d, 7h):

flowrabbas: Check
Nyanyo: Check
Momme DK: Check
_Vrax_: Bet 1.25 (is good to bet draws against 3 people?)
flowrabbas: Fold
Nyanyo: Fold
Momme DK: Call 1.25

Turn (Board: 8d, 3d, 7h, 10d):

Momme DK: Check
_Vrax_: Bet 2.50
Momme DK: Call 2.50

River (Board: 8d, 3d, 7h, 10d, 8s):

Momme DK: Check
_Vrax_: Bet 3.25
Momme DK: Call 3.25

Showdown:

_Vrax_ shows: Qd, Kd (King high flush)

Mainpot:
_Vrax_ wins the pot of 17.10 with King high flush

(0.90 rake were taken for this hand)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------
Hand #110511426 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Mon Oct 03 18:33:44 2005

Tshilly is at seat 1 with 9.05
jager is at seat 2 with 7.91
_Vrax_ is at seat 3 with 49.59
derora is at seat 4 with 13.56
5čme As is at seat 5 with 19.40
Ruro is at seat 6 with 16.02
zaragozano is at seat 7 with 9.25
vasi is at seat 8 with 10.46
flowrabbas is at seat 9 with 5.63
Nyanyo is at seat 10 with 44.85

Nyanyo posts the large blind 0.25
flowrabbas posts the small blind 0.12

flowrabbas: --, --
Nyanyo: --, --
Tshilly: --, --
jager: --, --
_Vrax_: As, Kd
Ruro: --, --
zaragozano: --, --
vasi: --, --

Pre-flop:

Tshilly: Fold
jager: Fold
_Vrax_: Raise 1.25
Ruro: Fold
zaragozano: Fold
vasi: Fold
flowrabbas: Fold
Nyanyo: Call 1.25

Flop (Board: Jc, 10c, 6s):

Nyanyo: Check
_Vrax_: Bet 1.25
Nyanyo: Call 1.25

Turn (Board: Jc, 10c, 6s, 6c):

Nyanyo: Check
_Vrax_: Check

River (Board: Jc, 10c, 6s, 6c, 2s):

Nyanyo: Bet 2.00
_Vrax_: Fold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #110512296 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Mon Oct 03 18:35:27 2005

Ruro is at seat 2 with 19.46
DED71 is at seat 3 with 13.47
_Vrax_ is at seat 4 with 22.51
Deuzdezept is at seat 6 with 9.40
bean49 is at seat 7 with 31.69
Nitsa is at seat 8 with 4.75
Dr_Hate is at seat 9 with 21.34
dancer1 is at seat 10 with 30.97

Nitsa posts the large blind 0.25
bean49 posts the small blind 0.12

bean49: --, --
Nitsa: --, --
Dr_Hate: --, --
dancer1: --, --
Ruro: --, --
DED71: --, --
_Vrax_: Ah, Kd
Deuzdezept: --, --

Pre-flop:

Dr_Hate: Fold
dancer1: Fold
Ruro: Call 0.25
DED71: Call 0.25
_Vrax_: Raise 1.25
Deuzdezept: Call 1.25
bean49: Call 1.25
Nitsa: Fold
Ruro: Call 1.25
DED71: Fold

Flop (Board: 5s, 3c, Qd):

bean49: Check
Ruro: Check
_Vrax_: Bet 1.25
Deuzdezept: Call 1.25
bean49: Call 1.25
Ruro: Fold

Turn (Board: 5s, 3c, Qd, 9d):

bean49: Check
_Vrax_: Check
Deuzdezept: Check

River (Board: 5s, 3c, Qd, 9d, Js):

bean49: Check
_Vrax_: Check
Deuzdezept: Bet 2.00
bean49: Call 2.00
_Vrax_: Fold

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TLR

10-04-2005, 08:51 AM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 5,007

TLR is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand#1: With somany people seeing the flop and you being in early position there is really no reason to chase with 2 overs and a 3rd best flush draw. Fold on the flop

Hand #2: Bet much more on the flop, with so many people in you do not want to let people see the turn for cheap. Bet at least 3/4 of the pot, if you are reraised act according to your reads or fold with no reads

Hand#3: Hard to judge without a read, the fact that they are not suited is not the factor to consider. Most likely you are facing a coinflip - QQ, JJ,TT,99 or low PP, with a small chance you are dominated (AA, KK) or dominating (AQ, AJ, total bluff)
Without a read I would call

Hand#4: I dont consider KQs premium hand, and raising with it preflop from MP is an invitation to trouble. Dont be afraid to play this hand multiway.

Hand#5: Nicely played

Hand#6: If you see that 5BB raises do not scare anyone raise more, you dont want the pot to be so multiway

Greedo017

10-04-2005, 10:04 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot

Posts: 1,461

cut out the limp dicked flop bets. otherwise good.

oh, and on hand two, i would consider reraising with AK there on a table that calls like this. if not, bet the flop harder, bet like 4 to start with, if you get reraised go ahead and push the flop.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

Miffed22001

10-04-2005, 03:07 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

hand 1
hmm maybe raise 4bbs instead of 3 (was it unusual to have half a table of callers or just a one off?)
the flop missed you. Have a bet if you really want to be aggressive but you are oop so checking is probably the right play. Yeah you have AQ but it missed, fold to the action.
hand2.
im not an advocate of reraising AK so i would call here, but id check the flop oop then hit hard with the reraise. If he calls or pushes i make a big bet if the turn is blank and thus make him make tough decisions. As it is you got him all in which is perfect.
hand3
good fold for me. If you get reraised like that he has a big made hand. If you know you can out play opp under normal circumstances then no need to call that.
hand4
yes i like betting here too. As you were the preflop raiser the seeming continuation bet is sound but anyone who caught that flop should reraise you. I like the play keep doing it so long as people dont start getting a read on your draw betting.
hand5
again yes you had AK but it missed
id check here for a free card, if i dont get one i fold it. No need to chase or try to buy this one.
hand 6
id bet both the flop and turn here repping the queen to see if i can push opps off their hands. Again, problem here is so many preflop callers than continuation betting almost seems pointless. Again either raise more preflop and bet hard at the flop or raise as you did here and be prepared to check flops you miss

Rondavu

10-04-2005, 06:44 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

In the first hand, raise more than 3xBB with AQ if you desire isolation. You have to feel out the raise required for isolation if that's what you intend to do. I don't care if it's 10xBB. If you WANT isolation, then find out how much it's going to take to get it. Of course, whether you want isolation for the price of 10xBB is another matter, but I'm just making the point. Think on your feet according to the table image.

In the KQ hand, don't raise at all from early position. It's king high, and you're in trouble postflop unless you flop real hard. Furthermore...

The table you're at is loose. What that means is your value gets transfered from preflop to postflop. The looser the table, the more you want to put money in postflop instead because implied odds are increased (postflop equity). What this means is what you lose in not protecting a premium hand enough preflop (which is sometimes fruitless when 5-6 people call a raise anyway), you gain is post flop equity when you hit because people are calling bets with all kinds of stuff. Get value when you make a hand. A lot of the isolation advice you read applies to tighter tables.

Position is much more important than you realize. Don't take up the minset of not wanting to limp something like AJo from early because you're stubborn. It's a losing proposition. The bigger the pot gets, the more you feel committed to it, and before you know it you're in a bad place. Don't start committing from early position unless you flop a hand you like. Preflop raises are committments.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

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What should be corrected in playing those premiums?

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