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Silly String
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12-30-2005, 05:55 PM
Post subject: What range will you call a Short Stack All-In?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Typical SS play: One limper EP, I am MP with KQs and raise 4BB, all folds to SS in LP who pushes 20BB. All folds, you are last to act.
Obvioulsly we have no reads since situation is hypothetical.
What range are you comfortable in calling with?
Me: AA-TT, AK unless a read indicates I should tighten or loosen those requirements.
Discuss . . .
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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The same hands I would call a 20BB PFR if I hadn't raised - AA/KK/QQ unless I have a read.
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Jesse K
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 31
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I agree with r8ed.
The only time I'd call with KQs is if he just took a bad beat or has lost a serous of hands in a row and think he is unlikely to have a PP. I'd put him on Ax with about a 6 kicker if thats the situation.
But without that happening I'd fold.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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20BB isn't short stacked.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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You don't think Short Stacks push with a wider range of hands? I think you might be leaving money on the table.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
You don't think Short Stacks push with a wider range of hands? I think you might be leaving money on the table.
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They do, but I'm not going to play table cop with anything less than a high PP. It depends on how they got short stacked. If they sat at the table for 5 orbits without playing a hand or they just sat down, I don't bother. If I see them playing poor hands fast previous to this, then my range opens up.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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AA/KK/QQ
I don't like racing in cash games.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK should be insta-calls here against most short stacks. Depending on my feel, I might add such hands as TT.. waiting for AA/KK or even AA/KK/QQ here is silly IMO.. unless the SS is doing nothing but folding for long periods of time and pushing. But in my experience, this generally isn't how they operate.
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Fortune 500
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bluffalupagus
Posts: 1,261
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20 BB is in no way shortstacked. 10 BB is like, minimum to even consider this.
Given the situation, I'd say AA, KK, QQ.
In a more realistic situation... Short stack at circa ~5BB, my range opens up a lot, but so much of that depends on a lot of factors not discussed here: Position. Reads... and probably most importantly: My Stack Size. You can call the short stack all in with ANY TWO given enough of the other variables and situational consideration being in your favor.... and this applies to tournament play.
In a ring game? No need to gambol against a short stack without a real hand, regardless of his stack size.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
AA/KK/QQ
I don't like racing in cash games.
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Aren't cash games all about pushing edges. Avoiding races like JJvs.AK is leaving money on the table.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Theres no information on how often he has been pushing in the last while. First hand when you sit at a new table.. Does that change things?
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Les_Worm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
AA/KK/QQ
I don't like racing in cash games.
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Aren't cash games all about pushing edges. Avoiding races like JJvs.AK is leaving money on the table. |
So if you are playing 200NL and someone pushes for $40 you call with TT?
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The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
So if you are playing 200NL and someone pushes for $40 you call with TT?
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I guess I should have specified that I play at 25NL. The play there is decidedly weaker than at 200NL.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
AA/KK/QQ
I don't like racing in cash games.
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Aren't cash games all about pushing edges. Avoiding races like JJvs.AK is leaving money on the table. |
So if you are playing 200NL and someone pushes for $40 you call with TT? |
If SS is agressive and you consider your initial 4x raise, some dead money from limpers/blinds, I don't think that call would be at all unreasonable. If they are just camping and obviously waiting for a hand like QQ-AA, then that would be a terrible call.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
AA/KK/QQ
I don't like racing in cash games.
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Aren't cash games all about pushing edges. Avoiding races like JJvs.AK is leaving money on the table. |
Not the way I play them. I don't think mopping up these small edge situations compensates for the huge increaces in variance.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Theres no information on how often he has been pushing in the last while. First hand when you sit at a new table.. Does that change things?
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Not particularly although I would likely lop TT off that list and maybe JJ depending on if he is 16BB or 24BB.
And I don't care about the definition of SS, at 25NL when a guy has $4-5 they play like they are SS. They push TPTK all the time, and their pushing range is opened up considerably from a solid 100BB stacked opponent..
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Not the way I play them. I don't think mopping up these small edge situations compensates for the huge increaces in variance.
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Good Point.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
If SS is agressive and you consider your initial 4x raise, some dead money from limpers/blinds, I don't think that call would be at all unreasonable. If they are just camping and obviously waiting for a hand like QQ-AA, then that would be a terrible call.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Obvioulsly we have no reads since situation is hypothetical.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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First of all, 20bb is not a medium sized stack, so it must be short.
Obviously a little depeds on read, but without a read I will call with:
88-AA, AK-AQ, sometimes 78s for shits and giggles.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
sometimes 78s for shits and giggles.
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Just a little advertising 
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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nice ass
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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bearcats05
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
nice ass
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jessica alba isn't too bad either
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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ohhh the things i'd do...
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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I like to gambOOl so anything i think is dominating, AK the top three AA/KK/QQ possibly also JJ but i doubt TT.
I dont like the race anymore simply because i can put short stack to a race with better odds for me post flop eg my pp/pair against his overs on a raggedy flop. Those odds il put him here, unlikely without something big.
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johnny_fish
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01-02-2006, 12:27 AM
Post subject: Re: What range will you call a Short Stack All-In?
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#25 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Typical SS play: One limper EP, I am MP with KQs and raise 4BB, all folds to SS in LP who pushes 20BB. All folds, you are last to act.
Obvioulsly we have no reads since situation is hypothetical.
What range are you comfortable in calling with?
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The same range you think he's pushing with. Dead money in the pot makes it +EV. And that's what ring games are all about.
Played some 100NL last week at a table with a (probably drunk) maniac who was literally pushing 9 out of 10 hands (100-200$ stack). During his stay at the table I called with 66, AKo, KQs and KK. He showed AK, Q8, 95 and T7. I lost about 50$ to him.
Funny thing was that after he busted and left, everyone started critizising my calls.. They were all waiting for AA/KK. Quote: 'There's no need to take a risk with a 66-33% coinflip'. 
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