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littleogre
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06-13-2009, 10:34 PM
Post subject: what point does a call cost a high enough % of stack shove
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok we have Ak With With 2 dollars at the table. To make a long story short it is raised back and forth between us. It,s on us to act and we have 1 dollar left. It will cost us 50 cents to call. Now assuming a call is +ev should we just shove so we can see all 5 cards? Guess i'm asking how much is it worth to guarantee seeing those last 2 cards.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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If you have already put $1.50 in the pot, and villain has done the same, the pot is going to be $3 on the flop with $0.50 stacks. Like, regardless of flop you are going to be putting the money in. So might as well put it in already preflop.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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also lets just assume that by the action we know villan is never folding . he is the kinda villain that never folds after 3-betting preflop . i think this is a fair assumption to make because most micro players are tight with those 3-bets and they hold on to their 3-betting hands with great tenacity
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
If you have already put $1.50 in the pot, and villain has done the same, the pot is going to be $3 on the flop with $0.50 stacks. Like, regardless of flop you are going to be putting the money in. So might as well put it in already preflop.
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Ty for the reply stacks. I just wish their was a formula to figure out the exact ev of a shove versus calling.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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There is.
Calling a bet is: EV = (Equity)(total pot) - (amount called)
Shoving is: EV = (% they fold)(Ev[fold]) + (% they call)(Ev[call])
with Ev[fold] = amount won when villain folds (usually pot before your shove)
and
Ev[call] = the EV you have when he calls, use the same Call formula at the top.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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ok assuming the villain will never fold and we will fold on any missed flop. We will shove any flop that gives us a pair or better and villain will always call calling pf has an ev of +.14
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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It depends on his range, which will influence your equity. And Like I said when you get to the flop of $3 and you only have $0.50c behind, it's going to be terrible to check/fold that flop. Because even with a whiffed AK you still have 6 outs, and against most hands that that's like 24% equity that you wasted by not getting the money in preflop.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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if we say we are calling off our chips on all flops the ev jumps to +.69
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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so far shoving wins as it is +.71 Also for this general question we are assuming that villain is playing top 7 percent of hands. Anyway i think the moral is you can't call of a big chuck pf then fold.
sorry the ev of shoving pf and calling all in on the flop are actually the same.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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It depends on the flop, as well as his range. But if we have 50% equity preflop and he never folds. And we have the same equity postflop and we always shove the flop, and he always calls, then yes the EV of getting it in preflop and the EV of calling and getting it in postflop is the same.
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