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What kind of hands do you play?

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nick87

07-30-2004, 12:32 AM Post subject: What kind of hands do you play?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2004

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I find myself losing SO MUCH becuase I will only play hands that are on the groupings. If its not atleast in group 6, I won't play it. and I lose constantly. Only recently have I been playing alittle bit losely and I noticed I have atleast been breaking even. What is your guys's policy on what hands you'll play. Do you stick strictly to hand groupings or the best hands or will you play a 89s everyonce and awhile?

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FyrFytr998

07-30-2004, 12:45 AM

#2 (permalink)

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While playing smart cards pay off. You're right you can't wait around forever. That's why position plays a key role in what cards to play also. Cards that may be horrible in the first four seats might actually be playable in the last three chairs. Dependent on how many callers you got.

Now this is just me, and many other factors come into account.

Take

I won't play this in the first four chairs. Why? Because I have to worry about 7 to 10 other callers or raisers after me. In the last three seats I only have to worry about 2 to 4 caller/raisers. And in the last three seats it allows me to throw the hand away if there were many callers before me.

So don't play the cards so much as play position of the table in respect to your cards.

Big Lick

Legendash

07-30-2004, 10:39 AM

#3 (permalink)

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If you're playing ring games then FyrFyr998's advice is sound but in SNG's you have to loosen up at times, early on when the blinds are tiny you can play some rubbish in unraised pots as the implied odds of hitting something good make it worthwhile and late on when there are only 3 or so left you have to loosen up again as they won't have great cards that often. And of course position is still very important.

"[This theory] is only useful for helping to calculate your luck odds. If you have a good read that you have a numerical advantage against your opponent, that your hand is "luckier"..."

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Fnord

07-30-2004, 11:24 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

My groupings for full cash ring table, small stakes.

0) AA KK
1) QQ AK
2) JJ TT
3) 99 88 77
4) 66-22
5) AQ
6) AJs ATs KQs KJs KTs QJs QTs JTs
7) AJ AT KQ KJ KT QJ QT JT
8) A5s A4s A3s A9s A8s
9) A7s A6s A2s Kxs T9s 98s 87s 76s

These days I've been playing a lot less of group 7 and below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Toasty

07-30-2004, 11:25 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendash

but in SNG's you have to loosen up at times, early on when the blinds are tiny you can play some rubbish in unraised pots.

I think this is more down to player style, I like to play like a rock in early round SnGs (FTR Exc, that's a bluff fest

) I've burned to many chips in the past in the early rounds I just stopped bothering, I like to come alive mid game after people think I'm a rock.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Fnord

07-30-2004, 11:34 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Well, there is rubbish and there is speculative hands. When the blinds are low compared to the stacks hands like 66-22 become monsters and suited connectors are good hands in postion. However, hands like AJ, KQ, A8 go down in value, particuarly unsuited.

When the blinds become silly and the table short handed, then that flips around. Big cards rule and being suited matters less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Toasty

07-30-2004, 12:43 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Yeah I should clarify:

For early rounds.

Pocket Pairs 66-TT I'll try to limp.
JJ-QQ I'll make a small raise and take it from there.
KK I'll raise quite aggressivly, I'm not too fussed about winning the blind money but I think its worth the risk winning a decent heads up pot Vs 3-4 to the flop.

AA I'll play a little slower its more position dependant, I'll try to limp re-raise from early, I might push if there is enough money already in the pot from late etc.

AK I play very agg
Axs I may limp from the CO/Button if there are a lot of limpers and the game has been passive, otherwise I'll only complete these in the Blinds.

Once down to 7 people and 50/100 blinds I'll lower my standards, but all of this isn't set in stone it depends on how the table has been agg/pass etc.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Legendash

07-30-2004, 02:17 PM

#8 (permalink)

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I've been playing way too loose recently in SNG's and basically losing like a bitch, i read a post here somewhere where toasty (i believe) said he played tighter than a baby turtle's anus and everytime i got some hole cards i said "tighter than a baby turtle's anus" and played 2 hands before it was down to 4 people and then won the tourny, hopefully i can keep it up.

koolmoe

07-30-2004, 02:31 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I play 99-JJ a little differently depending on whether I'm first in.

- If others are in ahead of me for a 3-4BB raise, I will typically fold these hands.
- If others have limped, I may limp, raise, or fold depending on how tight/loose I read them to be.
- If I am opening, I will raise these hands 3-4BB to fold out the Axs and Kxs type hands. I play them very fast on a friendly board.

3-4 BB assumes an average stack with reasonable blinds. I adjust the size of the raise as the blinds increase.

Toasty

07-30-2004, 02:38 PM

#10 (permalink)

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The trouble is with the blinds being low a riase to 60 or 80 chips won't fold out the Axs hands so its hard to know where you are so I prefer a no set / no bet policy (hence the limping) for early rounds, unless of course they beg me to buy the pot

Not saying this is the only way to play, but this works for me. I do think its the best approach if you havn't built up a lot of SnG experiance though.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

heatman

07-30-2004, 03:16 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 312

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendash

I've been playing way too loose recently in SNG's and basically losing like a bitch,

This sneaks up on me, and I'm sometimes way out of control before I reign it in. It seems to start with a run of non-great cards. You don't see a group 3 or better hand for awhile, and all of a sudden limping with T9o under the gun, or with only a couple players in the pot, doesn't seem to be such a bad thing. Then, you hit on one of those negative EV plays and it gets easier and easier to make them.

Before I know it, I'm out of control. I'm calling raises with Q9, raising with 43s early, all kinds of crap. Basically looking for that longshot to hit so I can take down a huge pot. Then when I quit hitting flops I have to lose for a couple of days before I realize what I'm doing.

I was pretty safe when I was using a solid starting hand strategy. When I left that to play more hands, I went through a bad place. Now I'm more aware of where those hands have value, and am getting better at getting away from them. I think its a natural progression in developing a top notch game.

I'm also a little vulnerable because I'm willing to experiment a little bit and find out what it really takes to win in bigger games. Like some others, I'm not going to be happy cleaning up in the $3/$6 at Meskwaki (local casino) or taking down fish in the $5 SNGs forever. I wanna develop a game that makes me money at the $20/40 high roller game at the B&M, and gives me a chance to compete at a higher level in the tournament scene.

I'm quite a ways from that, but I don't think I'm gonna get there without 1)thinking a lot about why various strategies work 2)trying them out 3)getting out of the fishbowl and taking on some better players from time to time.

"Limit poker is a science, but no-limit is an art..."

koolmoe

07-30-2004, 04:06 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty

I guess I should clarify by saying that I typically raise 99-JJ when I am opening from middle position (i.e., all the early position players have folded to me) or late position. I generally consider it a mistake to play Ax or Kx, even from late position, heads up with a preflop raiser or a PFR and a caller, so I assume everyone else plays it the same. That's probably a bad assumption.

I do agree that it can be a big trouble hand, and it may be a big leak for me.

Fnord

07-30-2004, 09:50 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by koolmoe

I play 99-JJ a little differently depending on whether I'm first in.

- If others are in ahead of me for a 3-4BB raise, I will typically fold these hands.
- If others have limped, I may limp, raise, or fold depending on how tight/loose I read them to be.

3-4 BB assumes an average stack with reasonable blinds. I adjust the size of the raise as the blinds increase.

Cash or SnG? What stakes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

koolmoe

07-30-2004, 10:07 PM

#14 (permalink)

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I was specifically thinking of tourneys.

Legendash

07-31-2004, 11:31 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Well my baby turtle mantra is working out, 5SNG's in the past 24 hours, 2 firsts, 1 2nd, 1 3rd and 1 5th place, haven't seen a run like that for about 3 or 4 weeks, thanks to all at this forum for making me see straight again, i'm really enjoying folding so many more hands and thinking "i'd have got screwed if i'd played that" after the hand is over.

LockLow34

08-02-2004, 04:31 PM

#16 (permalink)

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It depends. 8-)

Aceofone

08-03-2004, 07:29 AM

#17 (permalink)

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There are so many variables in hand selection. other than the cardinal rule of playing premium hands only in the early rounds.

I tend to play mostly by feel, the fewer players there are, the more valuable my 52s becomes (honestly, I've broken more players with this than any other hand excluding limp re-raising with AA).

Later in an SnG, if you think that noone has pockets, and decent suited connector can hit a solid flop.

If someone is raising representing pocket pairs, I have a hard time calling without a decent pocket pair myself simply because I'm drawing and they've made their hand.

I've been burnt so many times calling someone who I knew had low pockets by my AK, AJs etc. to the point where I'll only play them if I can see a flop without having to commit to an all-in. AK is an exception if its suited though, because there are just so many ways to beat a low pocket pair.

michael1123

08-03-2004, 09:13 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceofone

There are so many variables in hand selection. other than the cardinal rule of playing premium hands only in the early rounds.

This isn't really a one-sided issue. Here's an interesting counter argument: http://www.twoplustwo.com/pessaysII.html

Fortune 500

08-08-2004, 08:37 PM

#19 (permalink)

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I generally like to limp in with medium pocket pairs unless I'm sitting in an unraised pot late.

I look at these like straight draws... you gotta hit the flop or get out, thus it's best to do it cheap.

However, if you raise late with these, and a rag board comes, you're sitting with an overpair and a preflop raise, and can generally steal the pot right there, or gain a few extra bets to your overpair.

08-08-2004, 08:49 PM

#20 (permalink)

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I generally stick to the groups, except I like to play small or medium suited connectiors and occasionally, if the situation calls for it, AX suited.

My favourite hand to play is :Jh: :Th:, because you can catch top pair on the flop if you are lucky, a good flush if they a suited. And J 10 makes 4 straights, ALL of which are the nut straight.

Fortune 500

08-08-2004, 08:55 PM

#21 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dwarfman1990

My favourite hand to play is :Jh: :Th:, because you can catch top pair on the flop if you are lucky, a good flush if they a suited. And J 10 makes 4 straights, ALL of which are the nut straight.

This can make a great value hand. If I can limp in with this late, it can be like a lottery ticket.

xeqtr

08-08-2004, 10:16 PM

#22 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

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I don't know if anyone's still reading this thread, but here I go:

In order to win money, you have to put yourself in position to do so. To use a cliche, you've got to be in the pot to win it. While this goes far beyond what cards you have, they are definitely an important factor.

First off, you should be much more selective about the hands you play in a tournament than your average home game. But you knew that.

I play a lot of hands, and love to see flops. If you're familiar with Sam Farha (runner up in the 2003 World Series of Poker main event), my style of play is quite similar to his.

Several things factor into my decision on whether or not I'll play a hand. The players already in the pot, my position, the size of my chipstack, and the price are only a few of the things that are constantly on my mind while I decide if I'm going to play. There are always hands that are practically an automatic fold, such as highcard-rag, but some hands aren't as cut and dry.

Everyone knows about premium hands and whatnot, and they're great to have. But they only come around so often. Me, I love to play suited connectors... they're probably the most deceptive hand that you can play. I can't count the number of times that I've hit a pair, two pair, or even a set when the flop came rag, rag, rag, and my opponent(s) says "Sean, you don't have anything" in frusteration after I make a bet.

While I can respect 'rocks' and extremely tight players, I don't think I'll ever become one. While I'm still selective about the hands I play, I play more hands than most people I know, and typically have one of the biggest stacks on the table. If I ever sit at a table with Dan Harrington and he enters the pot, I will, in all likelyhood, fold. But, while he's got to be content with winning a handful of small pots and picking up a few blinds, I put myself in position to get callers and win larger, more helpful pots. Once again, playing winning poker goes far beyond the hands that you play.

"Poker's a lot like sex, because everyone thinks they're the best, but most people don't know what they're doing." - Dutch Boyd

heatman

08-08-2004, 11:19 PM

#23 (permalink)

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Amen xeqtr.

I know there is a lot of money to be made on those lower group hands, if you play them in the right situation.

I've won really nice pots with things like 57s, when the table let me limp in late and the flop is just right.

Now I wouldn't play 57s much before two off the button or so, and never in an aggressive game where I'm more than likely going to see a raise from the button, and not if I don't have enough callers that somebody is going to hit a nice top or two pair hand that will pay off big (NL).

Its all about adjusting hand selection to the table you are sitting at, the people to your left and right, and stacks they have.

I'm still learning how to do that :P

"Limit poker is a science, but no-limit is an art..."

xeqtr

08-08-2004, 11:33 PM

#24 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 31

Definitely.

There are so many variables to take into account at any given point in a hand.

As the old saying goes... texas hold 'em takes a minute to learn and a lifetime to master.

"Poker's a lot like sex, because everyone thinks they're the best, but most people don't know what they're doing." - Dutch Boyd

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