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Gafferland

10-22-2009, 08:20 AM Post subject: What the hell am I doing?

#1 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 27

Here is another hand I played terribly.

Villain is a complete maniac. 85/50 through 68, with 63% Agg. He could literally have anything. But of all the maniacal stuff I'd seen him do, pushing was not one of them. How do I call this? (Please don't say easily)

Reasoning behind the small flop raise was ... I'm an idiot? Any other river card and I'm calling with lightning speed. Argh.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($0.98)
MP1 ($3.43)
Hero (MP2) ($8.44)
CO ($2.96)
Button ($3)
SB ($2.10)
Villain (BB) ($3.77)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K

, K

2 folds, Hero bets $0.10, 3 folds, Villain calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.21) K

, 3

, 4

(2 players)
Villain bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.16, Villain calls $0.08

Turn: ($0.53) 5

(2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $0.40, Villain calls $0.40

River: ($1.33) 2

(2 players)
Villain bets $3.11 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $1.33 | Rake: $0.05

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is whether they admit it. I myself deny it." — H. L. Mencken

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Keith

10-22-2009, 11:54 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 1,336

raise flop bigger, say to 0.30 which would then be roughly the size of the pot. The actual bet you made was only half of what was already in the pot. Then you can over bet the pot slightly on the tun to say $1 ( or even at 2nl he may even just call a shove). Pot is going to be $2.80 ish. On the river, If he's still in and shoves you will then have $2.37 to call.
I think I'd then end up calling in this situation , as with his stats, if he had an A he'd probably have reraised you pre.
As played is this a normal action for him , or is he acting out of normal

Belt

10-22-2009, 12:03 PM

#3 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Istanbul

Posts: 95

I don't see anything wrong with your play here. The only thing debatable here is the flop min raise and i think it has a merit. Villain has a very wide range here and with this agg% he probably is betting most of it but not calling a big flop raise while you have nothing to fear at this board...

Mizark

10-22-2009, 12:30 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 12

I don't see much wrong with your play, other than raise more flop.

Pelion

10-22-2009, 12:33 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

I dont hate the flop minraise. If it wasnt an instant minraise youll see him come over the top quite a lot. As played you need to have seen him do something similar with air before to call this. Your hand is only a bluff catcher.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

stonyman

10-22-2009, 03:06 PM

#6 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 27

Only thing I don't like is the minraise (although that mostly stems from how often minraise is used against me by fishy players). I usually try to make my reraise 3-3.5x initial bet.

I think I would have also went for a pot size bet on the turn since I feel our set is good against the junk he is playing.

scfc_andy15

10-22-2009, 03:21 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 123

yh i dont like min-raise either but river fold i think was fine

"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."

Outlaw

10-22-2009, 04:59 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 1,033

Against maniacs, I over exaggerate all my bets because they typically will call no matter what if they have any piece. I raise to like .40 on the flop, pot the turn to commit, then get it all in on the river.

Jason

10-22-2009, 05:09 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: TN

Posts: 883

Ideally you'd want to get bets in this order to get him all-in by the river:

$0.70 -> Flop
$1.10 -> Turn
$1.86 -> River

It IS hard to get the full $0.70 in on the flop due to the small pot, but you fell too short of trying -> $0.35 cents would have been a better goal @ 1/2 that and you might have been min-raised back to get the full $0.70. As played, though, yes, you need to fold the river. It's possible you were beat on the turn for that matter although I still try to get it all-in on any river that's not a 2.

- Jason

Gafferland

10-22-2009, 07:41 PM

#10 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 27

Yeah, I guess my plan with the min raise was to see if he'd come over the top, in which case I'd call and c/r the turn all in. But the calls on the flop and turn seemed pretty conservative for this guy, which put the fear of god into me with that river deuce.

I was just beside myself because after he took down the pot he showed his hand: Q3o. And I just knew in my heart that he would've pushed no matter what hit the river. Literally any other card, including a 6, and I call that. The 6 would've used up all my time bank, but I would've called.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is whether they admit it. I myself deny it." — H. L. Mencken

thedarwinfish

10-22-2009, 08:02 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 31

...and you made a note on that guy, right? I ALWAYS make notes on dudes who get out of line like that.

Often they're more than happy to make a habit of it. Then next time you play the hand the exact same way you did this time and laugh all the way to the bank. Any overpair is a call to a push from a guy that will felt with bottom pair/mediocre kicker.

Found a guy last night who was a relentless 3bettor. First couple times, gave him credit. Then caught his line that he'll 3bet almost every time it's raised in any of his blinds and other times when he has zero money in the pot. I raised it, he 3bet me, I called. Caught top pair. He caught bottom pair. He check/called the whole way... showed up with 9To. Interesting hand to be 3betting with. Note made. I've found a small army of these guys so far in 2NL. They're great for the br when they're not sucking out on you.

linaker

10-22-2009, 09:16 PM

#12 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2009

Location: UK

Posts: 70

Making a note helps me to avoid tilt. He just took 66c from you, but you got the information that he shoves a mediocre hand when there is 4 to a str8 on the board. It helps to think that knowledge will enable you to stack him at some point.

sarbox68

10-23-2009, 05:12 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gafferland

Yeah, I guess my plan with the min raise was to see if he'd come over the top, in which case I'd call and c/r the turn all in.

Unnecessarily tricky for $2NL. And leads to unnecessarily difficult spots like so...

rpm

10-23-2009, 07:30 AM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: learnin'

Posts: 2,041

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gafferland

Yeah, I guess my plan with the min raise was to see if he'd come over the top, in which case I'd call and c/r the turn all in.

Unnecessarily tricky for $2NL. And leads to unnecessarily difficult spots like so...

agree. the value of deceiving this guy is nowhere near as high as the value of having him call far too large bets with far too wide a range. i think this applies to the vast majority of the field at 2NL

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