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coldmultra
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03-15-2005, 06:09 AM
Post subject: What do you guys think of KoJack?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37
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How do you guys rate KJ offsuit?
Do you lay it down with a big preflop raise?
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Aceofone
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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Yes.
To elaborate, there are too many hands that beat you, of course this all depends on the players and general mood of the table.
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a500lbgorilla
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03-15-2005, 06:14 AM
Post subject: Re: What do you guys think of KoJack?
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#3 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by coldmultra
How do you guys rate KJ offsuit?
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Low. It's junk that I avoid playing.
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Do you lay it down with a big preflop raise?
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Of course.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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OntarioQuizr
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20
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KoJack?
Pfft... Ken Jennings all the way!
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Andy Saunders
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coldmultra
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37
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thanksS OntarioSuKr
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Hubris1
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 163
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I bet if Pstars or Party (particularly party) added up all the money players have ever lost and broke it down into starting hands, KJ would be a monster. Its a huge piece of shit.
Will fold it in a heartbeat. Won't even call a min raise with it. No way in hell. You cant' reraise with KJ for information like you can with AK or even AQ. If they just call it tells you nothing, plenty of players will raise with KQ and just call if they get min re-raised. Same deal with AJ. Hell your optimal hand, J high flop, is beat by AJ which plenty of tight players will limp or min raise with.
I'd rather have 8 10 o.
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ville18
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo mama
Posts: 223
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Autofold, if the table isn't veeeeeeery loose and i'm late with limpers.
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thestrokes
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 119
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For shorthanded ring games, i will raise with it, but most likely fold it to a bet (or raise to my bet) from someone else (depending on the player, loose or tight)
For a full ring game i think i would fold it early and middle positions for sure, then for late position decide depending on how the table is playing.
Little tourney experience so correct me here... for tourney it would be fold if the blinds are low and a raise if the blinds are high correct?
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"Confidence not overconfidence"
-radashack
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Bo G
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 274
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Limp and see the flop for cheap. Fold on any raise pre flop. Its a drawing hand and has to be played like any other drawing hand.
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studboyjoe
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 130
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A lot of the poker books make JKo to be a major trap hand and a big money loser. Be very careful when you play it.
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Sharky: I've got good news and bad.
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giantdogs92
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 52
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i think its a hand you like to see flops with
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"If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apoligize" -Muhammed Ali
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thestrokes
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 119
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bo G
Limp and see the flop for cheap. Fold on any raise pre flop. Its a drawing hand and has to be played like any other drawing hand.
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I see k/j o as a drawing hand as much as i see 7/9o as a drawing hand. i think you need to raise it preflop to thin out and go from there, or fold it and bypass all the troble this hand will create.
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"Confidence not overconfidence"
-radashack
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thestrokes
I see k/j o as a drawing hand as much as i see 7/9o as a drawing hand. i think you need to raise it preflop to thin out and go from there, or fold it and bypass all the troble this hand will create.
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Depends on the field you're playing in. In tournaments, raise to thin. In ring play, KJ will give you TPGK a decent amount of the time, so it's worth a limp to see if the flop hits you. With most styles of play, raising with it is going to lose money for you most of the time.
- Jeffrey
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thestrokes
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 119
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thestrokes
I see k/j o as a drawing hand as much as i see 7/9o as a drawing hand. i think you need to raise it preflop to thin out and go from there, or fold it and bypass all the troble this hand will create.
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Depends on the field you're playing in. In tournaments, raise to thin. In ring play, KJ will give you TPGK a decent amount of the time, so it's worth a limp to see if the flop hits you. With most styles of play, raising with it is going to lose money for you most of the time.
- Jeffrey |
Seems fair enough, so from what i understand this is how i should generally play it in these situations is:
Early Tourney: fold in early position, limp all other times. (this is probobly wrong)
Late tourney: Raise to take down the blinds, isolate
Short ring game: Fold or raise depending on loose or tight table.
Full Ring game: Limp if table is passive, fold if table is aggro
Point out whats wrong with my thinking.
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"Confidence not overconfidence"
-radashack
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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It's not that bad of a hand. I'll see a flop with it, but generally won't call a raise with it unless I'm in position and it's suited. If I'm in late position and the table has shown weakness, sometimes I'll raise with K-J, but I'm not especially raising for value in this situation. Usually I'm just setting up a bluff on the flop, with some potential of flopping a pair and holding the best hand.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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i don't mind it so much if there are no raises. its really not so hard to get away from if you hit and someone else goes nuts, and usually if the flop comes j or k high you will have the best hand. if the flop comes king high and you end up losing your whole stack playing KJ isn't your biggest problem.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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KJ sucks donkey balls
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coldmultra
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37
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Guess this is one of my leaks.
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coldmultra
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37
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Thanks Guys. Appreciate all the help.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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strokes, that's about how I play it at my level. Position can be key too...I'm much less likely to even try limping it from an early position.
As an FYI, I'm maintaining a VP$IP of about 23% and playing at or below .5/1 blinds (NL$100). If you're looking to play tighter than that and/or you're playing higher levels, it may well be better not to play it at all (I'm basing that mainly on ilikeaces and his huge results).
- Jeffrey
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Fortune 500
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bluffalupagus
Posts: 1,261
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I'm folding KJ from anywhere other than the the Blinds, Button , CO, Or maybe very late position. And If I play it, I'm raising with it, as stupid as that sounds, for two reasons: I want to figure out exactly where I'm at in the hand, and I want to be able to represent a bigger hand using my position postflop... and I'm backing off to pretty much any resistance unless I hit two pair or better. Top pair okay kicker is not enough here.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I'm Raising it in LP!!!
Laggin it up.
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Radix
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15
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I will limp in KJo in middle and late position only if there a lot of callers, since this hand does better against more opponents, and I have no problem folding it to any raise, unless the raiser doesn't know how to raise.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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omg playing KJ against a raise is an enormous leak. now if you are the one open-raising it from the button, that's a whole other story. but basically this hand is a loser.
i like what mcmanus calls it in positively fifth street: JACK-KING OFF.
ChezJ
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