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JJDylan
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09-20-2004, 02:04 PM
Post subject: What to do when your cards dont come?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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Well, a little introduction seeing as this is my first post here, my name is Jay, i'm from buffalo,ny and ive been playing poker for just about a year now. 
I play mostly NL holdem on pokerroom.com, recently ive been playing a bit with the free $10 on Royal Vegas, but the results seem the same. I watch my stack slowly dwindle down to nothing before i get any real good hands to play, and when i do get a good hand the flop kills me....A recent example of this would be me having pocket Jacks and the flop coming AKQ, Or even more often getting rivered by someone catching a flush they had been chasing the whole hand. So my question is, what do you all do when your cards just arent coming?? Ive tried everything from playing super tight, to playing loose and trying more hands i normally wouldnt think of playing. but nothing seems to work, and ive found bluffing to be useless online due to the fact that players will very rarely fold no matter how agressivley i bet (even with a made hand). Its really frusterating watching players i beat easily in home games cash out another $200 bucks from their account while i go broke...any help is appreciated!!
- jay
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FyrFytr998
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Milford,Ct.
Posts: 1,412
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Well if you've tried different approaches with all the same result. Then just take it as a cold streak. That's why a lot of guys recommend having a god sized bankroll to get you through these periods of varience.
Another thing you could do is switch to Single Table Tourneys. This would ration the amount of money you lose. But still get a pretty good sized payoff if you come in the money (3rd place doubles you up minus the fee.) SNG's also give you some bang for your buck. Where at a cash game you have to watch out for the big stacks bullying the table. At least at a SNG you all start the same.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I agree with Fyrfytr, but you can also increase the bankroll and switch to multiple tables. This way you see twice if not three times the number of hands you normally would, allowing you nip that cold streak in the butt. Also, it is possible to semi-bluff at the low stakes, at least at the limit tables.
For example, if you raise preflop, and its checked to you, bet, or if you are first to act, bet. I win some pots in low LHE by just not checking when I raise preflop. Unless sometimes i just dont feel good doing it. Say you have AK and you raise/reraise preflop, and the flop is a bunch of crap. Just bet, if you get re-raised then you are probably beat. But more often than not if the field was originally at like 4 pre flop, it may be at 2 pre-turn, then a lot of times the guy who is calling you will be on a draw and miss and then fold on the river.
I read an article somewhere where its less costly to bet for 1 small bet at the flop and be raised and to call him, finding out where you stand, than check calling the flop and turn, etc.
I dont know if this will help much, but it helps me get through the streaks of cold cards or when good cards dont hit. Plus, this works well with low LHE.
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JJDylan
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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thanks guys...ive always done quite well in single table tournaments, i think ive finished in the money in 3 of the 5 i played last week, but once i switch back to ring games i get destroyed. Ive always attributed this to the fact that people play more "logical" poker in tourney than they do at ring games...ex:
i have AK and the flop shows alot of junk, i bet...in tournaments people are less likely to call me down with say A4 if their 4 hits on the flop where as in the ring games they'd call me to the river regardless.
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JB
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Okinawa, Japan
Posts: 15
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JJ, hey Im on Pokerroom all the time. Don't know what limits you're playing at but I've found that anything below 2-4 for NL and you're going to experience pretty poor players. This equates into alot of people drawing despite not having the odds and a ton of bad beats. But this also means that in the long run those same players are going to pay you off.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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i've had your situation these couple of days. either i'm still tilting (which i don't think i am anymore), or i really had a bad run of cards and luck.
since this was all with that free 10 bucks (built to 120 over 3 weeks lost it in 3 days), i'm passing it as a learning experience.
like JB said, anything less than 2-4 is full of crappy players that will outluck you. with that said, even tho i didn't like sngs before, i'm going to be playing them exclusively now before i can afford a big enough bankroll to enter bigger rings games (with good players). in sngs usually there's about 3-4 good players outta the 10. so often the final 3-4 will be with these players, where your tactics actually have an effect, instead of fish that call you all the way to hit their flush on horrible pot odds.
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JJDylan
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JB
JJ, hey Im on Pokerroom all the time. Don't know what limits you're playing at but I've found that anything below 2-4 for NL and you're going to experience pretty poor players. This equates into alot of people drawing despite not having the odds and a ton of bad beats. But this also means that in the long run those same players are going to pay you off. |
i play the .25/.50 NL tables at pokerroom...ive switched over to royal vegas lately and im not having much success there either. I guess im not as good as i thought i was, lol
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{This post has been removed}
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EddieBoy
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Corona California
Posts: 125
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Welcome JJ
[/I'm off to bed right now but you and me are going to have a heart to heart real soon
Im gonna turn you into an animal
]
Rip here's our resident 'animal maker'...You're in good hands...
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Yeahhhh mannnnnn
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EddieBoy
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Corona California
Posts: 125
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
JJ
welcome to FTR
I'm off to bed right now but you and me are going to have a heart to heart real soon
Im gonna turn you into an animal 8-)
stay tuned
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Rip here's our resident 'animal maker'...You're in good hands...
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Yeahhhh mannnnnn
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EddieBoy
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Corona California
Posts: 125
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sorry for the double post  , BUUUUT, on a side note, i finally learned how to use the quote thingamabob! YES!
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Yeahhhh mannnnnn
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leon_rts
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 127
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ok my Advice is , When cards do not come, you wont be winning , thats almost a fact , bluffing in NL is a double edge sword, and especially in Ring in good agressive tight games the best hand most of the time win.
So the hands dont come and now what? MINIMIZE YOUR LOSSE´s stay cool , keep tight and with patience sooner or later cards will come, just dont deviate from your normal play This is so important dont ever loose your nerve keep patience , dont start risking and go out for pots with marginal hands , wich can easily make you broke .
Thats my 2 cents
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"
--Anonymous
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Jayman_3
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 36
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I am by no means at the level of most of the guys here, nor as experienced but I will add my 2 cents.
First off I have only been playing poker for about 4-5 months now. I made my first $50 deposit on PP a few weeks back. Played in 3 $5 SnG's in which I finished just outside of the money and then took a shot at the .25/.50 (6 max) NLHE tables to clear the $10 bonus I was to receive. Of course I lost my entire $50 on the 1st day, lol. I think the biggest problem I had initially was that I was attempting to play it with the same style I did in tournies, trying to bluff at pots etc... But I quickly realized that tons of the players in these games will take bottom pair to the river and call any and every bet you put out there. So I knew I seriously needed to tighten up my game and if I wanted to be profitable I needed to Win big and Lose small. By this meaning if I see the flop and I get nothing at all (Unless I raised the pot preflop and it is checked to me I will bet out in late position) I fold. No need to put anymore cash in the pot. Losing the 50cent that you got into the hand on is nothing compared to continuing with a 2nd or 3rd best hand and losing a much larger amount on the hand. Only time I bet big post-flop is when I know I have a very good hand. If I hit trips, 2 pair, or top pair strong kicker with 2 suited on the board I ALWAYS assume the other guy is on a draw just to protect myself and fire out a pot sized bet, to make it a bad call on his or her part. This may be overkill, but it gives me piece of mind that if they do call and suck out it was them making the bad call and in the long run I don't worry about it. I know that same person will continue to make bad decisions and give me back my money and then some. In those cases if that 3rd suited card comes I will slow down and only bet small or call small bets. If they make some outrageous bet or reraise, unless I have something that can beat a flush that I assume they have I fold. Hence minimizing my losses. Maybe I had them beat and could have won the pot, but worse case I didn't and I lose. I just dont harp on those things and I usually stay focused and in the long run get the cash back from them or others at the table. I just look at it like this. That same guy who called on a draw and sucked out is that same guy that is gonna call or bet into you when you have the nuts and you can promptly rid them of their cash. In the long run I know I will come out ahead if I continue to play properly; so I don't worry about them. I just tighten up and bust them with the big hands.
Oh yea to finish my story as far as my initial $50 deposit. Like stated I lost it then PartyPoker gave me a $15 bonus provided I played 150 raked hands. This was the blessing that I needed. Since I had to play so many hands I had to play extremely tight to make the $15 last. This was 4 days ago. I have been playing between 2-4 hours each of those days one table at a time (Mostly .25/.50 6 Max NL Ring games, 1 SnG- 2nd place finish in a $5 SnG) and now that $15 is $229. Not sure how good or bad that is for the amount of time I am playing and the number of tables but I'll take $50 a day anytime. So for now I think my strategy is paying off well. I tightened up on my starting hands, minimized losses by only betting when I know I have a good hand if not the best, and when I do get a hand play it aggressively and don't let the chasers stay in the hand for cheap, of course that last bit is easier said than done I guess with some players.
Well thats it, sorry for the long post. I've learned a lot of things from these boards as well and it has helped out my play and I thank you all for that. Maybe my strategy or rational for playing how I do is flawed in certain ways but it has been working so far.
Also I wouldn't mind Ripptyde turning me into an animal as well 8-) , I especially wouldn't mind help with overall tourny strategy especially heads up.
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Jayman_3
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 36
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Also what are the advantages and disadvantages of playing the 6 Max player versus full table games? If I am doing well at the 6 Max tables should I play in the full tables to maximize the potential pot sizes?
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FyrFytr998
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Milford,Ct.
Posts: 1,412
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jayman_3
Also what are the advantages and disadvantages of playing the 6 Max player versus full table games? If I am doing well at the 6 Max tables should I play in the full tables to maximize the potential pot sizes?
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It's been said 6 Max NLHE is a looser game with more hands that are playable.
Try this thread. 6 Max NLHE
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Jayman_3
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 36
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
It's been said 6 Max NLHE is a looser game with more hands that are playable.
Try this thread. 6 Max NLHE |
There are always at least 1 or 2 loose players everytime I sit at a table. I tried the link but I got a message saying it doesn't exist.
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FyrFytr998
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Milford,Ct.
Posts: 1,412
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Try a search for the 2 Keys to 6 Max NLHE
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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That link is in the Inner Circle, fyrfytr.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jayman_3
If I am doing well at the 6 Max tables should I play in the full tables to maximize the potential pot sizes?
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I mostly play 6-max NLHE now. The pot sizes aren't smaller than the full tables because everyone's playing more hands, so there's more action. In fact, since there's usually a greater percentage of loose players per table (playing TOO loose and more aggressive because they know it's short-handed), the pots are often bigger than a full table at the same stakes.
On the flipside, though, you are also playing more hands, and you must be more keen about laying down your hand before getting in too deep and recognizing when your opponent isn't playing a typical short-handed hand.
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FyrFytr998
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Milford,Ct.
Posts: 1,412
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Ahhhh....that's why. Sorry Jayman. membership has its privliges. 
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JJDylan
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
JJ
welcome to FTR
I'm off to bed right now but you and me are going to have a heart to heart real soon
Im gonna turn you into an animal 8-)
stay tuned
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haha, sounds good to me, im always open to anything that'll improve my game 8-)
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