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What did I do wrong??? (losing with pocket AA)

  
 
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crazy-texan
Old 09-14-2006, 06:02 PM     Post subject: What did I do wrong??? (losing with pocket AA) #1 (permalink)  

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crazy-texan
Hi guys, I'm new in this forum although I've been reading it for some time now. Also new to poker, learning the game as I move mainly over at VC and PP (now up to $50NL).

----

My question is:

Just lost almost $90 with pocket Ad As, did I do something wrong or just bad luck?



***** Hand History for Game 5169507754 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, September 14, 13:50:28 ET 2006
Table Beginners #1189152 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: ramboldt ( $80.53 )
Seat 2: crazytexan72 ( $151.56 )
Seat 5: piivo ( $41.02 )
Seat 4: Cannabisss ( $29.64 )
Seat 7: Kisari ( $46.23 )
Seat 8: Sroark28 ( $56.18 )
Seat 6: scorpiorado ( $58.76 )
Seat 9: FasTyler ( $20.10 )
Seat 1: dsdcoffee ( $51.50 )
Seat 3: solpp111 ( $9.75 )
dsdcoffee posts small blind [$0.25].
crazytexan72 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to crazytexan72 [ Ad As ]
solpp111 folds.
Cannabisss folds.
piivo calls [$0.50].
scorpiorado calls [$0.50].
Kisari folds.
Sroark28 calls [$0.50].
FasTyler folds.
ramboldt calls [$0.50].
dsdcoffee calls [$0.25].
crazytexan72 raises [$2.50].
piivo calls [$2.50].
scorpiorado calls [$2.50].
Sroark28 folds.
ramboldt calls [$2.50].
dsdcoffee folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 7h, Td ]
crazytexan72 bets [$12].
piivo calls [$12].
scorpiorado calls [$12].
ramboldt calls [$12].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
FasTyler: ouhh
crazytexan72 bets [$20].
piivo is all-In [$26.02]
scorpiorado folds.
ramboldt calls [$26.02].
crazytexan72 calls [$6.02].
** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
crazytexan72 bets [$39].
ramboldt calls [$39].
crazytexan72 shows [ Ad, As ] a pair of aces.
piivo shows [ 9c, Ac ] a straight, six to ten.
ramboldt shows [ 7d, Kd ] a flush, king high.
ramboldt wins $78 from side pot #1 with a flush, king high.
ramboldt wins $136.06 from the main pot with a flush, king high.
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Rondavu
Old 09-14-2006, 06:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
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You didn't slow down on an obvious make board multiway. Check call the turn, and fold the river to aggression. This hand is an alarming indicator that you have little ability to release a high pocket when it's beat.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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cardsman1992
Old 09-14-2006, 07:07 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I would tell you to raise more preflop, too. 5 limpers before you, you need to pop it to minimum 8x BB (I would raise to $5 personally), and see who likes their hand now. Worst case is you pick up a lot of dead money. If someone wants to draw, let them make the mistake by doing so.

High PPs really need to narrow the field to 1-2 callers max.

Turn completes both the flush and the str8 (if someone didn't flop the str8 to begin with). In the face of so much competition, I might be inclined to dump the turn.

But the hand plays so much easier if you pop it up high enough PF....
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 09-14-2006, 07:07 PM #4 (permalink)  
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if you are getting that many calls preflop, you should be raising even more - raise to $4 or $5 there and get people outta there - the flop sucked for your hand and your good leadout bet was called by 3 others...when 3 players call a flush/straight draw heavy board, you need to be very wary - the turn card completed anyones flush draw or straight draw...I think leading is fine, and the $20 is a good amount (you still have the backdoor nut flush draw, slim but its something) - but betting the river is bad...your not beating anything thats calling you here -

rondavu is right - this is a glaring example of when the big pair needs to be given up -
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 09-14-2006, 07:09 PM #5 (permalink)  
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btw, welcome to the forum
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aokrongly
Old 09-14-2006, 07:30 PM     Post subject: ... #6 (permalink)  
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TLR
Old 09-14-2006, 08:33 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 After the flop, what hands did you put villians on ?


 
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crazy-texan
Old 09-14-2006, 08:57 PM #8 (permalink)  

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crazy-texan
Thanks everyone for your replies. I will take everything you said into consideration and hopefully my next post would be in the bragging area ...

Until then, I'll continue to follow this great forum and keep on practicing of course, so don't rip me off too hard if you happen to see me playing in the same room as you
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crazy-texan
Old 09-14-2006, 09:00 PM #9 (permalink)  

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crazy-texan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLR
After the flop, what hands did you put villians on ?
I knew they were all chasing the flush or the straight but I was hoping to get a A high flush with a diamond on the turn or the river.
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Sprayed
Old 09-14-2006, 09:28 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Since you say that you are new to poker I would question as to whether you are rolled for $50NL and if you are, are you capable, skill wise, at playing at this level. As others said, raise it 3xbb + 1bb for each limper ($5). Nice bet on flop, fold after that.
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crazy-texan
Old 09-15-2006, 07:02 AM #11 (permalink)  

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crazy-texan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprayed
Since you say that you are new to poker I would question as to whether you are rolled for $50NL and if you are, are you capable, skill wise, at playing at this level. As others said, raise it 3xbb + 1bb for each limper ($5). Nice bet on flop, fold after that.
I've been playing for about 2 months, started with the low stakes @ VC (0.05-0.10 and 0.10-0.20) but two reasons pushed me towards the $50 tables at PP -

1. It seems to me that the players at the micro-stakes tables are so stupid, that they'd do the stupidest decisions and calls, so sometimes I could get a profit out of it, and many times - I would lose a good hand over a lucky river for the villain who called with nothing, just because losing $0.20 is no big deal so he might as well call it.
This is also true for SnGs, for the $22 SnGs at PP I have I'm ITM 26.7% (15 tourneys), at the $11 I'm 50% (but only 6 tourneys) and at the $6 I'm 20%, so I made more money in the $11 and $22.

2. I don't know if it makes any sense, but I make more money, or should I say - I lose less, in the bigger tables. Maybe the sample is not big enough, but so far I've been doing better at the 0.25-0.5 than at the lower limits.

Do you guys think I went too fast and should keep on playing the lower limits?
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donkbee
Old 09-15-2006, 07:19 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy-texan
1. It seems to me that the players at the micro-stakes tables are so stupid, that they'd do the stupidest decisions and calls, so sometimes I could get a profit out of it, and many times - I would lose a good hand over a lucky river for the villain who called with nothing, just because losing $0.20 is no big deal so he might as well call it.
This is also true for SnGs, for the $22 SnGs at PP I have I'm ITM 26.7% (15 tourneys), at the $11 I'm 50% (but only 6 tourneys) and at the $6 I'm 20%, so I made more money in the $11 and $22.
No matter how "bad" these players are, you should be able to beat them. You should not be moving up if you can't beat them. Their "stupid" decisions should favor you in the long run, and you should be able to make money from them. You should not be moving up simply because you believe that the lower competition is too dumb for you to beat.

The most important thing is that you are bankrolled to play these games. Are you rolled for the $22s? For $50NL? You need at least $600 to be playing $22 SnGs. You need at least $1k to be playing $5oNL.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
 
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crazy-texan
Old 09-15-2006, 08:06 AM #13 (permalink)  

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crazy-texan
Quote:
Originally Posted by courtiebee
No matter how "bad" these players are, you should be able to beat them. You should not be moving up if you can't beat them. Their "stupid" decisions should favor you in the long run, and you should be able to make money from them. You should not be moving up simply because you believe that the lower competition is too dumb for you to beat.
Yeah, I know how lame I sound, not being able to beat the bad players, isn't it possible that I'm just better against aware players? I once heard Sam Farha saying the same thing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by courtiebee
The most important thing is that you are bankrolled to play these games. Are you rolled for the $22s? For $50NL? You need at least $600 to be playing $22 SnGs. You need at least $1k to be playing $5oNL.
I'm working on a day job as well, so putting in cash when I'm out isn't a problem.
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Pelion
Old 09-15-2006, 11:30 AM #14 (permalink)  
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the worse your competition the easier it is to beat them.

At stakes where people call with anything because it is "just $0.20" all you need to do is sit back until you make a hand, then make big bets that they call with anything.
Playing against tougher players is tougher. Thats why they are called tougher players.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Sprayed
Old 09-15-2006, 11:44 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy-texan
Quote:
Originally Posted by courtiebee
No matter how "bad" these players are, you should be able to beat them. You should not be moving up if you can't beat them. Their "stupid" decisions should favor you in the long run, and you should be able to make money from them. You should not be moving up simply because you believe that the lower competition is too dumb for you to beat.
Yeah, I know how lame I sound, not being able to beat the bad players, isn't it possible that I'm just better against aware players? I once heard Sam Farha saying the same thing..

Quote:
Originally Posted by courtiebee
The most important thing is that you are bankrolled to play these games. Are you rolled for the $22s? For $50NL? You need at least $600 to be playing $22 SnGs. You need at least $1k to be playing $5oNL.
I'm working on a day job as well, so putting in cash when I'm out isn't a problem.
If you can find Sammy's quote, please post it because a lot of beginners with your thinking have quoted him as saying this. I am willing to bet that his quote has been taken out of context.
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seoul_child1
Old 09-15-2006, 12:55 PM #16 (permalink)  
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it's personal choice what u wanna raise the PFR to, but IMHO with that many limpers i would've popped it too say $8.50... that's a bit extreme i know, but u really at this point wanna narrow the field immensely to 2 at most (*make them absolutely PAY to see that flop - give them No odds to call), ususally with that kinda raise only one at most will call, if not u take the blinds at this point which isn't too shabby - $2.50? oooh, and you take notes on each and every player that calls and u Buddy them 4 life!!!!!!!!!!
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Pyroxene
Old 09-15-2006, 03:57 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Everything that the others have said is absolutely true, but I want to point out one other thing.

Several have pointed out that you needed to raise the flop more to thin the field down to 1 caller (or 2 max). Now, obviously, AA has a much better chance against 1 caller than it does against 3 or 4. But there is still another reason to do it and this hand highlights it.

With so many callers, you cannot give opponents bad odds to draw because they will give each other good odds to draw.

Granted when you pot bet the flop, the first caller is only getting 2:1, but the second caller is getting 3:1 and the third caller is getting 4:1. Further, if people have been at the table a while, the first caller may have felt safe in calling because he was fairly comfortable that 1 or 2 others would also come along for the ride.

People usually call this schooling (as in a school of fish). It is great if you have a heavy draw hand and the money is deep. It is awful if you have a hand that plays poorly multi-way.
Pyroxene
 
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Xanadu
Old 09-15-2006, 05:03 PM #18 (permalink)  
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I'm just happy to see an AA hand that isn't just another bad beat post, and actually has some educational value to it. Advice ... what everyone else said.

As for doing better against better players, this is of course theoretically possible, but if true, it isn't because you are a good player, but because your game just happens to play better against players that aren't total fish than against the total fish. If you don't have the ability to crush the total fish, if you get into a game against truly good players rather than the ones that are marginally solid compared to fish, you will get ripped apart. Why? Since you don't have the ability to adjust to different players well, the truly good players that do have that ability will pick up on your game and run circles around you. It is always better to learn to beat the worst players because you will encounter them at any stakes you will ever play.
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