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aleksandr
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01-08-2005, 06:27 PM
Post subject: What to bet on tens?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
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So I have been getting middling pocket pairs lately, TT, 99, 88, etc. and usually on the flop I get an over and two unders with a few callers to my mediocre preflop raise (3-6xBB)
Flop comes out Q95 or similar (1 over, 2 unders) against my tens, and the bet is either crap or checked, and I'm not the button or close.
Usually I check this, fold to a large bet (I lose to TP), call small bets (I beat MP and LP), and bet hard on the turn if it checks around. What do you guys think?
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FishMagician
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 206
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Bet 1/2-2/3 the pot. If you get raised, you know you're beat. If you get called, it gets a bit tricky on the turn. Could be a draw, could be slowplaying trips, could be a calling station with tp...this is where your reads come into play. Mostly, though, you'll get raised or take the pot down there, which will give you your answer right away.
Checking is bad, because if you get bet into, the possibility that someone is trying to buy it comes into play, and if you don't get bet into, and you did have the best hand, you've given everyone a free card...and that's bad.
-Fishmagician
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Waggho
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 260
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I also have a hard time figuring out what to bet pf with those hands... I think of it like this: on a preflop heads up all-in occasion, TT is a strong hand. It beats seven pocket pairs, loses to four. It´s about coinflip (I think) with AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ and QJ. It´s a big favourite against any other AX, KX, QX and JX and a huge one against any other hand. With five callers on the flop though, you are a huge underdog of keeping the highest pair as people will hold J, Q, K and A and one of those cards usually shows sooner or later.
Thus, you want few callers if you raise it, so you should raise it big. On the other hand, if you hit trips with it you are very likely to show down the best hand and you want to play it like any other pocket pair that you hit a set with. That means you want many callers to build up a huge pot but still you need to play it pretty fast if there are straight or flush draws on the board and the board doesn´t pair.
This all comes down to the conclusion: the intuitive thought of raising TT a little less than higher pocket pairs, but probably higher than KQ, is as wrong as it could be. It´s standing with one foot in water and the other one in oil and you don´t know what you´re hoping to get on the flop. Look at the table, how many callers are there? Does it look like you´re getting lots of callers? Limp in and fold if the flop shows any overcard but doesn´t show a ten. Are most people folding pre-flop? Raise it big, like you would raise AA. This can also be used as a semi-bluff later in the hand, as well as the limping could in the previous example (your hand is well hidden).
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Autocratic
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 70
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Pretty easy situation actually. If your opponent has queens, you're drawing to two outs plus your backdoor straight. Your position changes the significance of your bet, but you should never be checking this. Let loose a decent (as said before, half the pot or a bit more is about right) bet. If you're in early position, a raise will mean you're beat, a call will mean you're likely ahead, unless they have a queen and a questionable kicker, which is unlikely. A straight draw is more likely. In late position you're even better off, as someone with mid or low pair may think you're trying to buy the pot - show them how wrong they were after the turn.
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Excalibur
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 81
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How to play with TT (and maybe also JJ?):
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Waggho
Look at the table, how many callers are there?
Does it look like you´re getting lots of callers: Limp in and fold if the flop shows any overcard but doesn´t show a ten.
Are most people folding pre-flop: Raise it big, like you would raise AA. This can also be used as a semi-bluff later in the hand, as well as the limping could in the previous example (your hand is well hidden).
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F-ck that's the best idea I've heard so far... goin' right in the record...
Thank you!!!
//Excalibur, Sweden
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I love the feel of Hold'em control...
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Excalibur
How to play with TT (and maybe also JJ?):
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Waggho
Look at the table, how many callers are there?
Does it look like you´re getting lots of callers: Limp in and fold if the flop shows any overcard but doesn´t show a ten.
Are most people folding pre-flop: Raise it big, like you would raise AA. This can also be used as a semi-bluff later in the hand, as well as the limping could in the previous example (your hand is well hidden).
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F-ck that's the best idea I've heard so far... goin' right in the record...
Thank you!!!
//Excalibur, Sweden |
That's almost veribatim Sklansky on JJ. I agree (and hell, even if I didn't, why listen to me?).
- Jeffrey
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TheDoc
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 144
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The less people in the stronger tens are. Early position i like to raise 3-4x the BB, then rely on reads and steller post flop play to figure out where im at and win the most/lose the least money. Late position with a lot of limpers i tend to make a 2.5-3x bb raise and hope for a set because with a lot of limpers especially in a ring game most are going to call with big cards. Late position with few limpers I play them stronger like in early position with a 3-4x bb raise, because I know I'll probably be able to out play them post flop especially if its heads up.
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Obertray
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Quote:
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The less people in the stronger tens are.
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I would say u want it to be either as small a number as possible or as large as possible. You really dont want like 3 or 4 callers w Ts and Js.
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ripjohngotti
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
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10/10 j/j 9/9 are some of the biggest trap hands ever, ive been readin many books liking courtiers style he says will bring them in for a slight raise from late positons, but i mean if u get reraised chances are ull get beat even though its like a 52% to 48% against 2 overcards but u gotta be careful i mean say u call or raise with j/j and 3 rags come off they could have kings in hand or maybe even trips ya dont know..thats why i like what courtier does small raise if it gets reraised more then likely fold..and with small pairs same thing just flat call if u dont hit the set on flop throw it away...wait for a big hand like ak qq kk aa aq(be careful with)
the odds of hitting that set to the river is 19%, and on the flop its 11% so good luck 
thats just my style u can do whatever u feel like that what makes poker so great u can use ur own style against anyone or change it up be careful though
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