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What is the best way to stack villian's overpair with trips?

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Pythonic

07-24-2007, 05:27 PM Post subject: What is the best way to stack villian's overpair with trips?

#1 (permalink)

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I don't feel that I'm getting the most out of my trips hands.
Lets say I have pocket 4s and I can put villian on KK or AA.
Flop comes 4 Q 2 rainbow.

Please explain what to do when in position and out of position.

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Seasider

07-24-2007, 05:51 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Out of position - Bet at him (OMG MY AQ HIT!!!!!!)

In position - Raise him (OMG MY AQ HIT!!!!!!!!)

The rest should follow pretty automatically...

Also you want to avoid scare cards like flushes etc.

Pythonic

07-24-2007, 05:57 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Seasider

What if flop is 4 9 2 rainbow?

Seasider

07-24-2007, 06:19 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Out of position - Bet at him (OMG MY 10 10 J9 is good!!!!!!)

In position - Raise him (OMG MY 10 10 J 9 is good!!!!!!!!)

I personally want to build big stupid pots quick with sets and lots are on to the check call check raise river.

Maby I'm missing lots of value though. If villan is hiper aggro I will let him stack off himself if I am in position.

Do you fold AA when someone bets/raises you on a 2 9 4 rainbow flop?

Pythonic

07-24-2007, 06:52 PM

#5 (permalink)

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They usually just smooth call with trips on the flop and raise on turn.

pgil

07-24-2007, 07:00 PM

#6 (permalink)

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if it's been properly raised pf (which it must have been if you can put villain squarely on KK/AA) then you should be able to get it all in with 3-4 bets unless you are insanely deep.

This usually involves: OOP- betting flop, getting raised, then check raising the turn AI once villain has committed himself/herself, or leading the turn if opp is skittish and unlikely to follow up on the flop raise.
in position - raising the flop, then betting/raising the turn (if it gets to the turn with money behind still).

don't play around with small bets/raises, especially on the flop. a lot of players have a hard time letting go of AA on the flop to a single bet/raise, regardless of the raise size. use this and bet large, although without significantly overbetting.

if someone gives up w/ aces on the flop to a single raise, then you should be raking this guy over the coals without hands.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

gop2004

07-24-2007, 07:10 PM

#7 (permalink)

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I just bet it the same way I'd bet any other hand. I'm a big believer in consistency. A real bet should be indistinguishable from a Cbet/bluff. For example:

OOP- bet 1/2 to 2/3 pot or opps stack (whichever is more, if hes short and you are HU). If multiway and one opp is short I stick with the 1/2-2/3.

In position- if he checks, bet 1/2-2/3. If he bets into you raise. If its a real bet, raise him at least 2 times his bet(example, pot 200, opp bets 100, raise to 300). If its a minbet, raise it to 1/2-2/3 pot.

I get plenty of action this way.

Now a question, How confident are you in your AA, KK read? If you get called on the flop and an A or K falls on the turn, are you looking to fold to aggression? This always bothers me and I'm interested in your thoughts.

Those who wander are often actually lost.

Pythonic

07-24-2007, 07:53 PM

#8 (permalink)

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I have numerous notes on certain villians and the amounts they bet when they have KK or AA preflop. It is significantly a different amount then the other premium hands. My problem is they tend to know when I have tripped the flop on them somehow. I will post HHs when I find them.

SHAKE

07-24-2007, 07:56 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Stack a donk line

Call flop, c/r turn AI.

Pythonic

07-24-2007, 08:09 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Stacking donks is easy of course but what about the decent players?

SHAKE

07-24-2007, 08:27 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Stacking donks is easy of course but what about the decent players?

OK.

This is a game of deception, when it comes to getting value i think a big mistake players make is thinking the wrong question, "How do i get all my chips in" or " how do i get him to call all his chips"

I think what you should really be asking is this

"how do i get him to put all HIS chips in" Its totally read dependant, you have to convince your opp that your weak. Lets face it if your oppent has a good hand its not to hard. Stacking somone when you flop set over set dosent take alot of skill good player or not. The skill is getting them to put their money in dead, to bluff it off, or to convince them that their marginal holding is the best hand, or that you will fold a better hand for a big bet.

Theres no ABC how to on this. IT DEPENDS.

I think really, just ask the right questions, aginst a lag you need to convince him your weak, get him to bet, c/c more, raise less.

Aginst a TAG its tougher, as normally they wont play a big pot without a big hand. Your TI has alot to do with it at this point. Hellmuthwould say dont be afraid to fold to 3 bets, because that one time you have a hand youll stack them and it will more then make up for the times you folded. Negranu might say b/b/b is the line, because he does that with alot of hands, strong or weak.

Basicly every situation is different, If you have AA and flop AAK and your op has 56o your not gona stack him (if hes decent) if he has KK you will every time.

Just ask the right q's to yourself, think more about getting them to put chips in, rather then them calling you.

Vrax

07-28-2007, 06:07 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Sometimes I use this line when OOP:

Dry board:
OOP:

Reverse stack-a-donk

Lead flop fairly strong 2/3 pot or so (as preflop caller), get called.
Check turn. Watch him hang himself.

IP:
Just raise flop and induce pissing contest.

Wet board:
OOP: Overbet flop and let him "protect" his hand by pushing. Doyle's line.
IP: Just raise or bet if he checks. Be as straightforward as possible. Position raises get zero credit these days IME.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

Chopper

07-28-2007, 01:08 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pythonic

Stacking donks is easy of course but what about the decent players?

personally, i think a lot of this depends on the player you are against...AND HIS HAND.

i like asking yourself questions, and trying to look weak. looking weak is a good way to gain a stack...or get nothing, imo. if you are willing to take that gamble, or are able to see when you just got sucked out on...then, so be it...take that chance. LAGs are very good at it (the good ones are), and TAGs need to stick to betting out abc-style. generally, a TAG is a very good player, in his element, and LAGs are good, in their's. if a TAG is playing aggressively...no tricky stuff...he can get away from some potentially deadly situations. its when a TAG gets "tricky" and tries to "slowplay" that he, himself, gets beat because he doesnt know when someone is playing back at him, etc...PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS, especially with big hands, and big flops. know what style is YOUR most effective, and play accordingly.

if you like consistency, like me, then you need to worry more about GETTING PAID as much as possible. when HIS cards are strong (TPTK, 2 pair), you will get a stack quite often. when not (TPGK, only drawing), you wont get much...but you can get paid.

whats wrong with taking down a flop with AA when you bet the flop, opponent calls, and you bet again on the turn, and he folds? did you do something wrong? could you have played it better, and gotten his whole stack? prolly not. but you DID just get paid the maximum you could with HIS hand...THIS time. sets are the same.

you can minraise dry boards. you can c/r the turn. you can bet at him all streets. its all different, but all the same. like others have previously said, its going to depend.

you dont think you will get a stack everytime you have AA or KK, do you? sets are the same. just because you flop one, doesnt mean you are entitled to a stack. thats a common feeling, but something i feel players need to psychologically get around. what happens almost EVERY friggin' time you get "cute" w/ bullets...YOU get stacked, right?

do your job, and let the opponent give you what he will...and take it and be happy with it. better to win a small amount that lose ANY amount. you will get a stack often enough...but getting fancy gets you SUCKED OUT ON...and loses YOUR STACK.

save the fancy (tricky stuff) for higher levels...down here (under 200NL, for sure), just bet out or c/r a little...and take what they are willing to give. the only exception i can see is HU against a "thinking" player when you are oop...on a very dry board. then, i may check/call...but prolly not.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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What is the best way to stack villian's overpair with trips?

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