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Weird spot with QQ as overpair against passive fishies

  
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 01-10-2009, 11:21 PM     Post subject: Weird spot with QQ as overpair against passive fishies #1 (permalink)  
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 Okay I think I might have messed up on the turn here.
Player I have position on is 67/22/1.2 over 9 hands, player in position on me is 78/0/0.8. Don't really have any reads, but by they way they just flat call my raise pf, and just flat call till the river makes me thing they're on a flush draw for sure (falling into the fish category) - ep guy might just have a pair or something? Tough to assign any range here. I though it over and figured maybe I should have jammed the turn since if they want the flush they're calling anyway? I really don't think either has a 7 here, but since I don't have any history on either it's tought to say, after all this is 2NL.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($4.66)
Hero (MP3) ($4.97)
CO ($5.01)
Button ($2.45)
SB ($1.28)
BB ($2.82)
UTG ($1)
UTG+1 ($5.15)
MP1 ($1.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q, Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, 1 fold, Button calls $0.12, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.39) 9, 8, 5 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.26, Button calls $0.26, UTG+1 calls $0.26

Turn: ($1.17) 6 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.52, Button calls $0.52, UTG+1 calls $0.52

River: ($2.73) 2 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets $1.12, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: $2.73 | Rake: $0.10
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DA9ers
Old 01-11-2009, 02:02 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I think on a drawy board a bigger bet on the flop and turn are appropriate, probably about pot sized or even an overbet to take away drawing odds. just unfortunate you got two calling stations...definately a good fold on the river
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Micro2Macro
Old 01-11-2009, 02:09 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DA9ers
I think on a drawy board a bigger bet on the flop and turn are appropriate, probably about pot sized or even an overbet to take away drawing odds. just unfortunate you got two calling stations...definately a good fold on the river
Yeah I was thinking I should have made the bets bigger. After reviewing the hand I thought I should have overbet to get the player behind me have to call himself all in if he want's to chase his draw, and if the player I had position on wanted to gamble as well, I'd have position on him for the river - so if he checks over when the flush completes I could just check behind and know I got my $ in ahead for max EV. Thanks for the respsonse.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-11-2009, 02:13 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I don't hate it. I just think bet sizing is off.

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Micro2Macro
Old 01-11-2009, 03:17 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I don't hate it. I just think bet sizing is off.
If I made the bets bigger but the player behind me still flat called, yet let's assume he still has some chips left in his stack, what odds should I be looking to get here to check/call if he shoves the river when the flush completes?

Or if he barely had much behind would it just be better to bet the river for POSSIBLE fold equity, although I'm certain he has the flush here.

Basically I'm just wondering if there is a certain price (pot odds) you guys might pay to look a guy up here. Even if its like 4-1 is it really worth it since we are pretty certain we are beat?
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HarleyGuy13
Old 01-11-2009, 03:23 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 My .005 cents worth. As already mentioned and acknowledged by yourself bet sizing is a little lite but good job being able to get away from it on the river. Wish I could do more of that myself!
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Micro2Macro
Old 01-11-2009, 03:52 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 ty sir

I'm going to leave this thread open next time I'm playing to remind myself not to price the draw in.
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amifat
Old 01-11-2009, 05:15 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Aside from the Possible Flush on river, could we rule out BTN having TT+, A7, K7 x7 etc?, i have seen alot of passive villians show up with these type of hands especially TT+ at 78/0/0.8?
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Micro2Macro
Old 01-11-2009, 06:35 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amifat
Aside from the Possible Flush on river, could we rule out BTN having TT+, A7, K7 x7 etc?, i have seen alot of passive villians show up with these type of hands especially TT+ at 78/0/0.8?
Very true. The stats on him aren't reliable yet though since it's only 9 hands, but if we have to make a snap judgment it has to be loose passive just by the way he played here. I think c/f'ing the turn here is really weak. Although our villian could have a 7 being (given that it's true many players at this level will call raises with any two cards). This is what I believe led me to making a much smaller bet than I should have. And thus the confusion of what the correct play is in the situation given I had no reads.
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RoyalProdigy
Old 01-14-2009, 11:25 PM #10 (permalink)  
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This was a tough hand. The only thing i would have done different is the turn bet but i think they woulda called even if you bet the pot the whole way down. I honestly believe that. I also believed you saved yourself some money by not calling that river bet. Nice fold. He might of had 6-7s for all you know. I mean he had one of two hands and they both beat yours.
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grindinginnj
Old 01-14-2009, 11:34 PM #11 (permalink)  
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bet pot or over bet flop, bet pot on the turn.
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