Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

Was this a weak play, or did I make the right decision?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
G3O
Old 05-30-2005, 06:55 PM     Post subject: Was this a weak play, or did I make the right decision? #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
G3O
This is a great forum. Thanks to everyone for a great read.

I am a beginner at NL Hold'em. For the last few months, I have been playing online as practice for weekend games with friends and family. Our typical weekend game is a winner takes all $5 to $20NL. I have read one of Phil Helmuth's books, countless online articles and FTR posts, and practiced online enough to win a majority of our weekend games. Even so, I feel that I have and overwhelming amount to learn about the game.

The scenario:

Last night I was practicing in a 150 player online tournament, and made it to final table of 9 players. As the BB I was dealt pocket Tens. Pre flop, everyone folded except the Button (a strong player) who limped in. I considered raising with my pocket tens, but did not like my position or relative stack size, so I decided against it.

The flop came down AA7 rainbow. I checked, and then the Button overbet the pot. Now the wheels start turning in my head

...does he have an A?...why is he overbetting?... is he trying to trap me by making it look like a bluff?...should I raise him or fold?...whatever you don't call this bet.....

The Outcome:

I decided that risking my tournament life wasn't worth it, so I folded. I complimented him on this bet and told him that he made me fold pocket Tens. He then admitted that he had a 7. I guess one thing I missed in my reasoning was ..is he protecting his hand? Ironically, I finished 7th place in the tournament.

The Questions:

1) Did I make a mistake by not raising pre-flop?
2) Did I make a mistake by checking on the flop?
3) Did I make a good fold or a weak one?


I really appreciate any comments. I can't get this hand out of my mind.
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
bair
Old 05-30-2005, 07:09 PM #2 (permalink)  
bair's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
bair
shoulda raised preflop, shoulda come out betting, never let someone limp in heads up on the button when you have a hand like TT, or any hand for that matter. it was obviously not a good fold, but if i woulda played it like you did I am sure i would have folded too, but you should have never been in the position to fold. and don't tell him what u folded, now he knows how you play.
Reply With Quote
G3O
Old 05-30-2005, 08:50 PM #3 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
G3O
Quote:
Originally Posted by bair
shoulda raised preflop, shoulda come out betting, never let someone limp in heads up on the button when you have a hand like TT, or any hand for that matter. it was obviously not a good fold, but if i woulda played it like you did I am sure i would have folded too, but you should have never been in the position to fold. and don't tell him what u folded, now he knows how you play.
Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe you are right. Had I raised Pre-flop, then I would have the opportunity to represent an Ace on the flop.

I guess the fact that I was short stacked played alot into the equation. The Blind was about 10% of my chips. The last thing I wanted is to have him bully my stack by going over the top pre-flop, or to commit suicide by betting into a set of Aces.

I'm not sure I agree, however, about not telling him I had TT. Advertising plays like this works to my advantage, especially at a table of aggressive players. Especially when they are reciprocating. If find it generates many check-raising opportunities when in early position.
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 05-31-2005, 04:56 AM #4 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Why would you read Phil Helmuths book when you could have just as easily rammed a pencil through your temple?

Raise preflop, bet the flop.

If you check preflop, fold the flop. The pots going to get outta your hands and there's no sense fighting over a 2.5BB pot unless you've only got 5BB behind.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
evman150
Old 05-31-2005, 06:33 AM #5 (permalink)  
evman150's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 269
evman150
Don't tell him how you folded pocket tens because he'll be thinking if this guy's not betting tens preflop he's probably tight as hell and i'll come after his blinds every time from now on cause he'll probably fold.

NEVER tell anyone how you made what you think was a great laydown. It just encourages them to make the same play with a shitty hand later. You don't want to be known as someone who will make big laydowns. You of course want to be able to make the big laydowns, you just really don't want that kind of reputation.
Light years ahead of the competition.
 
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 05-31-2005, 12:10 PM #6 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
NEVER tell anyone how you made what you think was a great laydown. It just encourages them to make the same play with a shitty hand later. You don't want to be known as someone who will make big laydowns. You of course want to be able to make the big laydowns, you just really don't want that kind of reputation.
Yah, this is one of those rules that I say, "Do as I say, not as I do." Sometimes I'm just so good, others need to know about it. :biggrin: But just sometimes.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
G3O
Old 05-31-2005, 01:55 PM #7 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
G3O
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
NEVER tell anyone how you made what you think was a great laydown. It just encourages them to make the same play with a shitty hand later. You don't want to be known as someone who will make big laydowns. You of course want to be able to make the big laydowns, you just really don't want that kind of reputation.
Yah, this is one of those rules that I say, "Do as I say, not as I do." Sometimes I'm just so good, others need to know about it. :biggrin: But just sometimes.

-'rilla
Tried ramming the pencil in my temple....it didn't help...lol. I take it you are not a Hellmuth fan? Believe me, I am such a s**t player that reading that book actually helped me...or at least prolonged my suffering.

I think the real problem is that I was doing alot of check-raising. Of course it's easy with a nut hand, but when my TT came up against a bet on a board of Aces, my inexperience got the best of me. I was hoping that the Button would think I was check-raising again and not make a bet.

evman150-
I showed my hole cards in hope that I could trap someone trying to knock me off stronger holdings in the future. Is this a bad idea?

Thanks for your responses. It is appreciated.

Anyway, thank you for
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 05-31-2005, 03:33 PM #8 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3O
Tried ramming the pencil in my temple....it didn't help...lol. I take it you are not a Hellmuth fan? Believe me, I am such a s**t player that reading that book actually helped me...or at least prolonged my suffering.
Almost all poker books are overrated. Unlike a good temple jabbing, books don't have any impact on your thought processes. Especially in the field of battle where they matter most. The most important thing to you as an aspiring poker player is practice. You will learn much more from experience then you ever could reading about which hands Hellmuth thinks are pretty.

And a side note, I hate him as a person. No longer as a poker player.

Quote:
I think the real problem is that I was doing alot of check-raising. Of course it's easy with a nut hand, but when my TT came up against a bet on a board of Aces, my inexperience got the best of me. I was hoping that the Button would think I was check-raising again and not make a bet.
People make a lot of tactical mistakes early on. If you weren't making mistakes, I'd be worried. Becuase then you'd get an inflated ego and never understand the theory behind any of your moves.

Quote:
evman150-
I showed my hole cards in hope that I could trap someone trying to knock me off stronger holdings in the future. Is this a bad idea?
Yup. It's a waste of time and almost impossible to do appropriately. At 10/20 NL, these moves could pay off dividends. But right now, you don't know what hands you should show and which you shouldn't. If you knew how to deal with a table running you over becuase you've showed 4 great folds, then it's a good move. But you probably don't (Or might not have the balls to. :biggrin.

On top of that, its a move wasted on low limit players.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
G3O
Old 05-31-2005, 05:09 PM #9 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
G3O
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3O
Tried ramming the pencil in my temple....it didn't help...lol. I take it you are not a Hellmuth fan? Believe me, I am such a s**t player that reading that book actually helped me...or at least prolonged my suffering.
Almost all poker books are overrated. Unlike a good temple jabbing, books don't have any impact on your thought processes. Especially in the field of battle where they matter most. The most important thing to you as an aspiring poker player is practice. You will learn much more from experience then you ever could reading about which hands Hellmuth thinks are pretty.

And a side note, I hate him as a person. No longer as a poker player.
lol.....my wife commented that he was an idiot after she witnessed his antics in the Heads-Up tournament that was recently on NBC.
Am I erroneous to infer by your comment that you have met Hellmuth?

Quote:
Quote:
I think the real problem is that I was doing alot of check-raising. Of course it's easy with a nut hand, but when my TT came up against a bet on a board of Aces, my inexperience got the best of me. I was hoping that the Button would think I was check-raising again and not make a bet.
People make a lot of tactical mistakes early on. If you weren't making mistakes, I'd be worried. Becuase then you'd get an inflated ego and never understand the theory behind any of your moves.
A rookie mistake.

Quote:
Quote:
evman150-
I showed my hole cards in hope that I could trap someone trying to knock me off stronger holdings in the future. Is this a bad idea?
Yup. It's a waste of time and almost impossible to do appropriately. At 10/20 NL, these moves could pay off dividends. But right now, you don't know what hands you should show and which you shouldn't. If you knew how to deal with a table running you over becuase you've showed 4 great folds, then it's a good move. But you probably don't (Or might not have the balls to. :biggrin.

On top of that, its a move wasted on low limit players.

-'rilla
No 'rilla I have no clue of how to deal with such a table. I feel like I am on the cusp of something. I think I understand the mechanics of the game, but I am lost when it comes to instincts or advanced plays. Here is a topic for you- What's the difference between Balls and stupidity?
Reply With Quote
bair
Old 05-31-2005, 05:22 PM #10 (permalink)  
bair's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
bair
Quote:
What's the difference between Balls and stupidity?
I don't think theres such as thing as having balls in poker, obviously there is stupidity though. I don't really think of "do I have the balls to make this call on the river?" Usually I factor in all the elements of my environment, all the tells the player has given off, how good my hand is, how good I think his hand is, and i'll end up with a percentage I think I have of having the winning hand. Then I will factor that percentage in the same way you would with pot odds for calling on the flop and turn, and decide to call or no on the rivert. Stupidity would be calling when those odds dont work in your favor
Reply With Quote
a500lbgorilla
Old 05-31-2005, 06:06 PM #11 (permalink)  
a500lbgorilla's Avatar
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to a500lbgorilla
Quote:
What's the difference between Balls and stupidity?
That's easy! Balls is doing something that you think may work but that others wouldn't attempt. Stupidity is doing something that others wouldn't attempt.

Quote:
lol.....my wife commented that he was an idiot after she witnessed his antics in the Heads-Up tournament that was recently on NBC.
Am I erroneous to infer by your comment that you have met Hellmuth?
No, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him since the judge does not allow me within 100 yards of him. :biggrin:

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
Reply With Quote
G3O
Old 05-31-2005, 06:17 PM #12 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
G3O
Quote:
No, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him since the judge does not allow me within 100 yards of him. :biggrin:

-'rilla
hahahahahahaa.........
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:51 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.