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weak bet/strong check?

  
 
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Molinero
Old 03-08-2005, 02:14 PM     Post subject: weak bet/strong check? #1 (permalink)  
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What do you guys think about checking when you hold the probable best hand?

Early position, raised with JJ, got re-raised, so I just called (I was big stacked at this point; had the other guy 2 to 1).

Flop: AAJ

Do you check that or bet it? (Note: I am not worried about AA or AJ; I'll pay those off.)

The reason I ask is that I try to avoid developing a pattern of betting weak and checking strong hands...but it seems like I'll probably get a fold if I bet anything at that flop.
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Molinero
Old 03-08-2005, 02:16 PM #2 (permalink)  
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RESULTS to follow later.
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sykotik489
Old 03-08-2005, 02:22 PM #3 (permalink)  

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I check that for a number of reasons you're either gonna get a fold and win the blinds plus the raise or you're gonna get re-raised by one of the better hands that you mentioned. The only way you're gonna get paid off if you bet is if someone holds an A. But you would still get paid off by this person if you check. Check it and maybe even the turn at the least you could induce a bluff and win a little extra.
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JeffreyGB
Old 03-08-2005, 02:27 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I push to a reraise here (assuming you're paying off AJ/AA). You have a strong hand, but it's not invincible.

How strong were your raise and the reraise? If both were reasonable strength (say 1/2 the pot or more for you and then at least double your raise for him), it's probably indicating that he has an A with a high kicker - AK and AQ are strong possibilities. Better to get his chips in now and make him pay to draw than to let it come for free.

It's also possible he thinks you were full of crap and is himself bluffing, in which case he's not going to develop to a hand in which he'll put appreciably more money into the pot, so you miight as well take it down now.
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JeffreyGB
Old 03-08-2005, 02:29 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Sorry, I misread that as the raises happening after the flop. Yeah, this is check-worthy on the flop...or bet 1/2 the pot.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 03-08-2005, 03:31 PM #6 (permalink)  
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If you overbet your hand here or just play it fast, it'll better disguise your full house. Some opponents will shut off if he senses that you've tried to slowplay him somehow.

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dsaxton
Old 03-08-2005, 08:24 PM #7 (permalink)  
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The most likely hands for him to have are K-K and Q-Q (He reraised preflop, two aces have been seen, and three jacks. A-A and A-J are unlikely to the point of almost being impossible since there is only one way A-A could have been dealt, two ways for A-J, and A-J would not reraise preflop, unless the guy is an idiot.), so your decision should be based on how to extract the most money from these hands. I would probably put out a small bet on the flop to appear weak and hope that I get raised. If you get raised, I would most likely call, and then check the turn. If he just calls, I'd consider making another small or medium-sized bet on the turn. If he raised on the flop, he will probably bet when checked to on the turn, and you have the option to either call or raise. I'd probably call if his bet is small or medium-sized and then put out a medium-sized bet on the river (half the pot or less), since a raise on the turn appears too strong. If he bets big on the turn, I would probably suspect that he has A-K and reraise him. There honestly aren't many hands which you can beat which will committ much to this pot aside from A-K.
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Iconoclastic
Old 03-08-2005, 10:02 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Looks like a good time for... the old 'small bet, check, big bet' line.

I would bet 2x min on the Flop, check the Turn, and bet pot on the River. Do not reraise before the River.

And to complement that line you should probably do some post oak bluffs just so your small bets on the flop aren't too respected.
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TheDoc
Old 03-09-2005, 02:29 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I agree with iconoclast, assuming he has the 2nd best hand, or a hand like KK or QQ, this would be the best way to extract the most out of him. And well if he had AJ or AA hell push back sooner or later and you will pay him off.
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Greedo017
Old 03-09-2005, 06:56 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 aa or aj, i agree pay off. a lot depends on your opponent, is he passive or aggressive. i almost say, just go ahead and bet half the pot right off. Here's how i see it.
AA/AJ - kiss money goodbye.
KK/QQ - will fold to any bet, and is only calling/raising once they have you beat. maybe slowplaying would get a bluff out of them. a tiny one.
AK/AQ - these guys you can make money off. won't fold to a half pot bet i guarantee.

So, the way i see it, you're either F'd, in which case betting would be ok, they are going to fold until they have a better hand than you, in which case you can bet, or they have AK/AQ and are ripe for being suckered, in which case you can bet and be ok.
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Molinero
Old 03-09-2005, 04:04 PM #11 (permalink)  
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RESULTS:

I check.

He moves all in.

I call.

He holds: A9 suited.

All his chip are belong to me.
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r8ed
Old 03-09-2005, 05:51 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I think the minbet route like others mention is good, but since you checked and he pushed, it's an easy call. If he really did have a hand he would try to play it slower to get more money out of you.
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sykotik489
Old 03-09-2005, 08:15 PM #13 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molinero
RESULTS:



All his chip are belong to me.

CLASSIC
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Greedo017
Old 03-09-2005, 09:21 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 i don't guess i should be surprised he had ace 9... but what can i say i am.
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dsaxton
Old 03-09-2005, 10:19 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molinero
RESULTS:

I check.

He moves all in.

I call.

He holds: A9 suited.

All his chip are belong to me.
That guy sounds like a big idiot.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 03-10-2005, 03:28 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedo017
i don't guess i should be surprised he had ace 9... but what can i say i am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molinero
RESULTS:

I check.

He moves all in.

I call.

He holds: A9 suited.

All his chip are belong to me.
That guy sounds like a big idiot.
Bad dog!

Baaad dog!

The A9 played it fine. A little sloppily but fine. Reraising with A9 is setting himself up post flop. If Molinero has demonstrated that he can make the tough lay down, the reraise is great.

You're dealt JJ in EP and raise to 5 (1 big blind). Get reraised to 20.

Flop comes T54, you bet and get reraised again.

What now?

He just so happened to flop top trips and overbet his hand. Also a fine play since it might get QQ or KK to call thinking he's bluffing (as overbets are often precieved).

Don't ever call a player a fish becuase he's playing speculative hands. Blame yourself for not immediatly thinking, "Sweet! Let's exploit him." over "Stupid f***ing moron!" [/rant]

-'rilla

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Molinero
Old 03-10-2005, 04:53 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Baaad dog!

The A9 played it fine.
Agreed. All the way. This guy is NO slouch; the first time I played with him, he was able to lay down good hands to me THREE times when he put me on exactly the hand I held. He's tough, and he has seen me lay down a big hand, too.

He's good. Real good. And he usually leaves my game in the black; last time was just not his night.

And keep in mind: A9 suited is a pretty good hand in a four-way game, especially when the flop is AAJ. He can't put me on AJ any more easily than I can him.

And let me add (though 'rilla and others know, I'm sure): my original post was not about What A Bad-Ass Poker Player I Am, and How Badly I Pwned My Buddy. I just like getting input on those interesting situations where I've caught a big hand, but a bigger hand is possible.
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