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fender55
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10-01-2005, 08:06 AM
Post subject: ways to beat a super loose aggressive player?
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 52
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I frequently play a gentleman who is the most arigant son of a bitch you'll ever meet about his fabulous poker skills and likes talking trash at the table. He's so good that I had to tell him what pot odds are one day, but he's super aggressive and can be very very lucky. Here's his playing style.
He will go all in pre flop with frequency; if he's not all in pre flop, by the time the river comes he will be. People always seem to fold to him thinking he always must have monsters. When people do call him with say A/K and he goes ai preflop, many times the little bastard will have a small pocket pair like 4's, his op might hit an ace on the flop, but the little shit always seems to land a 4 on the river! He has a tendancy to get under my skin, though he's never really made me tilt, but I need more effective ways to beat him. Here's what I've been trying to do. Any adjustments or recommendations to this strategy are much appreciated as mine that I've used for him is good, but I still loose more than I should to him as I feel as far as over all poker skills I'm better. This guy just has incredible balls.
I will usually try to wait on good hands, group 1 and 2 hands, then I'm comfortable coin tossing with him as nobody else will call his huge bets pre flop. If I have position on him and he calls or makes smaller raises preflop I'll often raise/reraise him, he has the tendancy to be able to fold when he knows he's caught. If I'm on a drawing hand and somehow he forgets to raise preflop and I'm bb and limp in, if I hit and tend to be very passive as he folds to lots of action most of the time, so I check to him and wait for him to raise. If he senses weakness, he'll go all in 99 percent of the time, so I check and wait for him to raise me ai and I can usually get him.
I think part of my problem is sometimes I play him too passive and forget the rest of the table. I forget that he folds to action most of the time. Its hard when he's more than happy to raise you all in any minute. I feel stupid raising on a drawing hand to have him reraise me ai and folding to him.
Any suggestions to my strategy for beating a player like this would be very helpful. I never loose too much to him, but I think I could win a lot more. Thanks again.
Cory
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Cory
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jukejointroach
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 131
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you just said he folds to a lot of action most of the time. and lays down when you reraise and he thinks he's beat.
isolate him. make a hand. drop the f'n hammer.
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Zidane18
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 193
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tbh, he sonds like a good player
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fender55
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 52
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Yeah, I get what you say about creating more action and not letting him have control of the table. Sometimes this is hard to do because he gets upset at you and will raise all in and get a lucky damn river almost everytime.
As far as he being a very god player, I would believe it if he didn't ask me what pot odds and implied odds were and if I didn't catch him so frequently. Its not that I always loose to him, its that I think there are ways to win more from him. When I loose to him its usually folded a pretty good but not super monster hand to his a i bets, so just loosing a little money at a time, except the times he goes all in on some long shot draw and hits on the river after I put all my chips in to call him.
Then my wins from him are usually small as he'll genterally fold to action, or if you raise him too many times he'll reraise you all in. Other times I'll catch him and win huge pots from him, so all and all, we're about even or I've won slightly more from him as he has from me, but I'm seeking strategy that will help me get him trapped, feeling pot committed, if he's not a i already, when I know I have the better hand.
Thank you for your comments and suggestions so far. Much appreciated.
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Cory
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Zidane18
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 193
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fender55
Yeah, I get what you say about creating more action and not letting him have control of the table. Sometimes this is hard to do because he gets upset at you and will raise all in and get a lucky damn river almost everytime.
As far as he being a very god player, I would believe it if he didn't ask me what pot odds and implied odds were and if I didn't catch him so frequently. Its not that I always loose to him, its that I think there are ways to win more from him. When I loose to him its usually folded a pretty good but not super monster hand to his a i bets, so just loosing a little money at a time, except the times he goes all in on some long shot draw and hits on the river after I put all my chips in to call him.
Then my wins from him are usually small as he'll genterally fold to action, or if you raise him too many times he'll reraise you all in. Other times I'll catch him and win huge pots from him, so all and all, we're about even or I've won slightly more from him as he has from me, but I'm seeking strategy that will help me get him trapped, feeling pot committed, if he's not a i already, when I know I have the better hand.
Thank you for your comments and suggestions so far. Much appreciated.
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just cos he doesnt know what pot odds are doesnt mean that he doesnt apply it to his game
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fender55
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 52
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Score! Just took him for 2 buy ins at the table a while ago!  
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Cory
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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2 ways to do it really:
1. just be more aggressive with him, many aggro players hate re-raises, and will easily fold.
2. tighten up hoping he'll hang himself. (this is the weaker option, but it does work time to time)
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
2 ways to do it really:
1. just be more aggressive with him, many aggro players hate re-raises, and will easily fold.
2. tighten up hoping he'll hang himself. (this is the weaker option, but it does work time to time)
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Depends on how aggressive he is.
Stupidly aggressive people who re-reraise you all-in with nothing should be camped against and called down with a mediocre hand
Smart aggressives can be played back at
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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aggro players like to be in the drivers seat, but once they see a "weak" player raise them, they often back off, and rarely just push on a total bluff, only total maniacs will.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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chipfiddler
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 12
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I feel your annoyment super aggros are always irritating but trash talking arrogant ones are the worst. You wanna tell the other players no he's full of shit don't fold but you know he may well have the goods.
I prefer the camping option, maybe show him a couple of moves in position with marginal hands, and when you do hit big, just call him down don't push him all in and let him hang himself.
Then smile and don't forget to say thank you
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"First, you get the money. Then when you got the money, then you get the power, and when you get the power, then you get the women." - Tony Montana
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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It sounds to me like you're doing it right, if you're winning money from him.
Bet back at him a couple times and see if he runs. I'll occasionally use a "timid maniac" style on a passive table, and just beat up on anyone who doesn't hit back. Like most bullies, a maniac only picks on the kids who don't fight back.
If he doesn't run, wait until you have something (TPTK is enough), and call him down. Maniacs will throw all their chips in with nothing, and then you can take them away. If he hasn't thrown them all-in by the river, go all-in yourself and see what he does. If you get him to fold on the river, he won't be bluffing you again for a while.
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Discuss Plato, Aristotle and Aquinas at The Lyceum
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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If your only complaints are that he is continually getting lucky than you've found yourself a wonderful player to pay you off in the long run. Like everyone else has said, wait for hands and droop that hammer.
The only thing that needs a change is your attitude. It sounds like you're letting that "little shit" get far too under your skin. This guy is your atm, learn to love him.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Last night I was playing a couple of tables, and a friend was playing a couple of others (we tend to avoid each other these days  ) when he instant messaged me to say he'd just stacked an utter fish who had risked a wholw buyin on a stone cold bluff. He told me the guy's name and it turned out I had, a few weeks earlier, picked him out as an uber-fish to look out for at another poker forum I'm part of.
Anyway, he then leaves my mate's table - and comes to mine! I manage to destack him within an orbit (set of twos) and, to my delight, he then reloads. AND THEN he goes on a laggy rampage, managing to take back 60% of what I took off him and ends up almost 3 buyins up!
There's no real moral, just an anecdote about how loose fish function. In a way I'm glad he made money - I look forward to taking it off him next time...
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Two ways that i play a player like this
super passive- let him bet my hands for me also in this scenario i will limp with raises very rarely. my aim is to catch something big but very difficult to read and then im playing weak hping he smells my supposed weakness. Yes it may take a while for this to happen but if he pushes i only need him to do it once for it to be profitable
super aggro- basically i take on his role and reraise him all the time often with jack to see how he likes the psychology of it. If he doesnt like it i keep doing it if he does then i revert to super passive mode
But it looks as though your giving him credit when hes lucky. Id love to play this sort of player
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fender55
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 52
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Hey htanks guys! I can use both of these strategies on him as I found out. Is what I've started to do with him is start off camping and playing pasive. I let him push and when I've got tptk or better, I'll cal him down. 9 times out of 10 I have him beat because he will go all in with absolutely nothing.
He'll always reload and come back and I tend to take on the aggressive mode and he'll usually fold to me for a while and then he goes back to all in or nothing preflop, so I camp again. I have pushed him around severely the last 3 times I've played him. Thanks again.
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Cory
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jukejointroach
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 131
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how have the other folks in your game done lately? have any of 'em caught on to you? have they done better against him?
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{This post has been removed}
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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The ones who can make good lay downs and not go too far with hands are hell to play against and you should avoid playing with them. If you decide to play against them make sure you atleast have position on them at the table.
However, 99% of laggs are bad players that take hands too far, so all you got to do is figure out their raising/calling ranges and wait for a hand that is better than that range. Its quite simple.
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fender55
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 52
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The people who usually play this guy with me tend to pay him off more than they should. He's very aggressive and I try to have good selective aggression (got a long way to go,) and a lot of people I play with again him like to call him to the flop and 1 or 2 will call him to the turn and he'll amke another rediculous continuation bet and they fold to him.
The last few times I've owned him though, and owned most of the other people at the same table. Still, I take it pretty careful around players like this until I get better at my over all game.
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Cory
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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he is a poker player so maybe he was lying about knowing pot odds
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