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Want to work on Level 2
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ponyboy
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06-10-2008, 08:44 PM
Post subject: Want to work on Level 2
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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Or whatever Level you think it is, but the Level is: what do THEY have? I think being able to confidently predict what your opponents hold is a great advantage and something I currently have a mental block about. Right now I usually assume when an overcard comes that the villain has it, or if the flush draw comes then they have suited cards, etc. Which means I'm playing scared some of the time, which means I suck.
So what's the best way to work on this? I already make notes on each table as we play, putting down whatever starting hands, bets, etc I get to see - whether they raise preflop then fold, what kind of play they are making, etc.
Any other ways to work on this besides fanatical note taking? And should I also at the same time work on sizing bets (another leak). Or is this too much to work on at the same time?
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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You do this with PT after the fact. Work when the game is slower. when reviewing your play and going over hands you will get a better sense of how people react to certain hands at certain times. You can also just play fewer tables and watch hands your not involved in. Try to put both players on hands. And when you do this, it's not an individual hand your looking for, it's a range of hands. You need to narrow his range, from preflop to the river on every street. Sometimes It's wide( TPTK, Set, 2pr and a bluff) Other times it's narrow (Nuts or a bluff).
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socal1111
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06-11-2008, 06:18 AM
Post subject: Re: Want to work on Level 2
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#3 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ponyboy
Or whatever Level you think it is, but the Level is: what do THEY have? I think being able to confidently predict what your opponents hold is a great advantage and something I currently have a mental block about. Right now I usually assume when an overcard comes that the villain has it, or if the flush draw comes then they have suited cards, etc. Which means I'm playing scared some of the time, which means I suck.
So what's the best way to work on this? I already make notes on each table as we play, putting down whatever starting hands, bets, etc I get to see - whether they raise preflop then fold, what kind of play they are making, etc.
Any other ways to work on this besides fanatical note taking? And should I also at the same time work on sizing bets (another leak). Or is this too much to work on at the same time?
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PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
Definitely practice putting opponents on RANGE of hands while not in the hand. Pay attention to absolutely every reaction to every bet on every street in every single hand.
There's no "pill" you can take-- try to stay patient.
A gr8 piece of advice when I began: "Stop thinking there's a boogey-man in every bush you walk by." Passive play = losing play. They can't alway have it. Experiment w/ firing back... you'll be amazed at how often they DON'T HAVE IT!
Stay focused,
Dyane
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Jyms hits on the main point. You're not trying to read their exact hand, you're trying to read the range of hands they could have, using the clues they give you.
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Just playing to improve.
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ponyboy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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Thanks for the advice so far guys. So obviously range is key. I'm assuming watching the range of hands in what position is important as well? And then dividing into either wide (loose) or narrow (tight) ranges.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ponyboy
Thanks for the advice so far guys. So obviously range is key. I'm assuming watching the range of hands in what position is important as well? And then dividing into either wide (loose) or narrow (tight) ranges.
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I think we all work on this. Since I'm REALLY focused on "range finding" right now, I'll some thoughts about what I think about.
First, I used PokerStove to find various opening ranges. It's not perfect, but it's a great place to start to find out what a villain who has 25/10 stats might have started the hand with.
When we talk about narrow ranges, we generally mean that something leads us to believe villain can have a very few combinations of hands. This often happens when a TAGG (say 10/8) flat calls a 3bet preflop. So he opened for 3.5xbb, you raised to 10bb, and he called.
Well, he opens 8% of his hands for a raise, so we're looking at AA-66, AK, AQ, and then a couple weaker hands, maybe AJs, KQs. There's not much else assuming he limp calls w/ small pp's.
Now he calls a 3bet pre. You're pretty sure he'd rr with AA and KK, and he probably folds 99 and worse, maybe even TT. If he's smart, he just folded KQ and AJ, since those hands are easily dominated by the strong hand you just repped.
Now he's got the classic "narrow range," maybe QQ - TT and AK - some villains will call with AQ/AJ or Axs. But that's a read beyond just HUD stats. And depending on the flop (and since we often have position when we 3bet) and how he acts, we can narrow his range even more.
I will only offer a couple more ideas. But I try to note which way the villain leans with opening raises, 'cuz I want to 3bet whenever I can to get him into the narrow range problem. Some villains like to raise Axs too much, hands like A8s and worse (GREAT to 3bet against). Some villains overplay sc's which will have them HATING high card flops. Some villains will open raise all pp's, so cbetting into them with AK on a T65 flop can be dangerous.
Go to work with PT and the stove, and see what you can come up with.
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