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eragotte
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12-17-2009, 06:45 PM
Post subject: VPIP & PFR - Turning a number into a range?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Im sure this is discussed somewhere but I cannot find it.
Is there somewhere where I can find out what hands different vpip or pfr's represent? When I see a vpip like 17-22 I say okay standardish tagg ranges and have an idea what that entails but was hoping for something more precise. Thanks.
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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you can get top X% ranges from pokerstove. Keep in mind tho, that certain % of hands only roughly represent true ranges, as there are always more factors than pf equity in a vacuum to consider. Probably no way around sitting down, going thru hands that went to sd and figure shit out on your own, dont be a lazy bum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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haha alright, appreciate the response and I will.
Consider the topic closed.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I think we should keep the topic open and create a long thread on it tbh
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celtic123
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12-18-2009, 11:43 AM
Post subject: Re: VPIP & PFR - Turning a number into a range?
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: **Officially**The worst poster on FTR
Posts: 708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
When I see a vpip like 17-22 .
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You could look at the 17-22 ish peoples actions in you Database / hand history . See what they raise with, limp with , eat for break fast etc, if you do your own research , youll learn shit loads. And it will pay off.
Try it and post back here what you find.
Actually....
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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It is in fact such an excellent idea that I would just go ahead and stfu about it asap. 
If you have a basic knowledge of ranges then you can do it yourself with a bit of logic.
I personally do not want to see preflop% to range charts all over the internetz, so I'm not going to participate.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Well No Limit Holdem Theory and Practice has a basic one but I was looking for something a little more indepth lol, Ive started looking through and doing it myself, sorry if this post stirred something up.. lol
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Sasquach991
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rat Cheer
Posts: 1,012
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Compliments of Robb from the digest:
"Hand Ranges
Top 5%: 88+,AJs+,KQs,AKo
Top 10%: 77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,AJo+,KQo
Top 15%: 77+,A7s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo
Top 20%: 66+,A4s+,K8s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo
Top 25%: 66+,A2s+,K6s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,A7o+,K9o+,QTo+,JTo
Top 30%: 55+,A2s+,K5s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,A7o+,A5o,K9o+,Q9o +,J9o+,T9o"
Compliments of Me:
Yellow is actual hands. Percent shown in Stove is higher to show only yellow hands
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"Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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There is no set range for an X% player if X isnt very loose or very tight. You can certainly get an idea, but different people will have very different ranges on the same percentage of hands.
Some loosish players will play things like A8o too often to raises.
Some will play tight to raises but will limp or limp/fold a tonne.
Some will fold the weak aces but will play lots of broadways.
Some will play lots of 67o type hands that can make a straight, but fewer of the A9 type hands that are easily dominated.
Some will fold the 67o, but totally love seeing a flop with 67s and A7s.
Its the same with tighter players. Some will play like 22-AA, AQ+ from any position. Others will play like 88-AA, AT+, KJ+ and come out with pretty similar looking stats. The kinds of decisions you need to make against these kinds of players in the same situations are often going to be very different. This is why you need to watch hands you arent involved in and see what kinds of hands people showdown in different postflop situations rather than just relying on stats and an arbitrary "this percentage = this range" mentality. Dont get me wrong, stats are a great starting point. But stats are not reads (or at least the small subset of VPIP, PFR, AF, 3bet that we are often given in hand histories does not amount to a read).
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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well when talking about pfr a 10 percent pfr usually means the top 10 percent of hands. It's a little more tricky when talking about cpfr. Say you and villain are 120bbs deep and you raise utg. Vill flat calls. Your hud says he has a cpfr of 12 percent. Now Kj off is in the top 12. While hands like 78off and pocket 3s are not. Which of those 3 hands do you think he is most likely to flat you with. Which of them do you think most decent players would consider junk versus an utg raise? I short when you being flatted think about Xing crappy gapped broadway cards from villains range and replacing them with small pairs and sc cards. Unless of course they are huge donks who think all cards higher then 10 are pretty then anything goes.
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daviddem
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philippines/Saudi Arabia
Posts: 983
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Does any of the HUD programs out there like HEM, Poketracker or Poker Edge turn the stats into a range for an opponent, given his position and betting patterns?
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Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
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Juice®
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daviddem
Does any of the HUD programs out there like HEM, Poketracker or Poker Edge turn the stats into a range for an opponent, given his position and betting patterns? |
No offense, because you probably don't know any better, but this is exactly why there's such a high turnover in uNL. You guys want everything given to you on a silver platter. It's all there for you, just have to put in the time. If poker was easy, everybody would be doing it.
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daviddem
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philippines/Saudi Arabia
Posts: 983
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Dude I was asking a technical question about the available software out there. Personally, so far, I have been playing without a HUD. At the micros anyway, it is relatively little use because you don't often come across the same opponents.
For example, does any of the software subtract PFR from VPIP when an opponent limps in a certain position, and give a real time approximate range corresponding to his stats in that position? Just a question. I am not asking this to have "everything on a silver platter".
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Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
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Juice®
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
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I don't think anything like that exists but I imagine you could hack the software and program a pokerstove-type plugin. I sure as hell wouldn't want to go that route. Just use pokerstove with different player types and start formulating ranges. Those stats would only help you so much and might even do more harm than good anyhow since so many other factors could alter said range.
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