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Tyshalle
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03-24-2009, 12:57 PM
Post subject: VP$IP% 100 after more than fifty hands?! What the hell???
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 40
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Had a pretty screwed up session today, full ring at microlimits. Played against a guy that after more than 50 hands he had literally put money into ALL of them. It didn't matter how much you raised the pot, 3xBB, 4xBB, 6xBB, he'd always call. And he'd almost always bluff the pot hard, playing super aggressively, and would frequently call to the river. He showed down hands like 85o with a board of AKJT9, and he'd do this in position, calling large raises and re-raises. It made no sense whatsoever.
After about fifty hands he'd lost about two and a half buy-ins, but astonishingly I just couldn't score a hit off the guy. He took about two and a half buy-ins off of me as well. Sometimes he'd call down to the river with nothing, while other times he'd flop a full house and play the hand EXACTLY THE SAME. It was impossible to get a read off the guy, and several times I lost to this guy with two pair or better. A few times I even flopped a set and the guy still managed to suck out on me.
So I guess I'm just looking for advice. Standard raises don't work against a player like this, in fact, no amount of raising seems to work at all. It still seemed effective to get into a heads-up situation against him, but once HU what do you do? If you get top pair and top kicker, do you just dump the hand because he might of flopped two pair or a set or something? And when he plays aggressively, do you just dump the hand?
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Illfavor
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,152
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Tighten up, play more top pair type hands then implied odds hands and stop cbetting. Just hit a hand and town him.
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Ich grolle nicht...
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Lucothefish
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cretaceous Park
Posts: 701
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With 100%VPIP, top pair is value town. Tighten up your opening range and don't fear his raises.
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<@d0zer> how will you learn if I don't berate you harshly?
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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Quote:
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Tighten up, play more top pair type hands then implied odds hands and stop cbetting. Just hit a hand and town him.
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What he said....
Just remember that you may sit for a while and never get a proper and to play against him.....happens all the time.
And be careful of the others b/c some of them have picked up on him as well. Dont butt heads with them just b/c you want the fish's $$. He will donate....it just might not be to you.
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I confess in quicksand
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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tighten up?????
Find a middle pair and keep betting.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Everyone who has replied has said to play tighter, which is a good adjustment to make to loose players in general and especially one who is extremely loose. In several of my home games, I often hear live players complain about such players and that play style, but the truth is that these are just about the BEST players to play against and they are who I look to play against both live and online. The reason for that is when I hit a hand, I want to get paid and these players will pay you. If a player is the opposite extreme and very passive, then you're only going to get their money through steals or the occasional cooler hand like AA versus KK. Imagine how much it the game would suck if you got pocket aces, made a 3x raise, and everyone folded. Or, you got pocket 8's, flopped quads, made a 1/3 pot bet and everyone folded. Now imagine those same hands with a complete maniac in the game calling, betting, and raising like it's going out of style. There's much more money to be made from the big pots and big payouts from what could be considered just good or even marginal hands not to mention what you can get from great hands to monsters.
My first thought when someone says that a player is playing EVERY hand is that they are likely exaggerating OR no one has tested the player's limits. He may very well have called every 3x, 4x, or 5x raise, but did anyone bump it up to 6x, 10x, or all-in? If it was all-in, was it a full-stack, half-stack, deeper, or something else? Even complete maniacs usually have limits. Part of the trick is to find out a player's limits and then exploit it. If a player LITERALLY never folded, then all you have to do is wait for TT-AA and push all-in or a hand like AT-AK and push all-in if you spike TPTK. You DO have a read on this player - any two cards. It's just a wide range. Remember, no matter what range you apply to any player, unless you have the nuts, you can lose. If you find the player actually has limits, which I've never met one who didn't, then you play it accordingly. If you have a hand like AA or KK and the player will fold to 15x raises but not 10x, then raise it 10x or 12x.
Yes, it is frustrating when you don't get hands or when you get hands that don't hit boards or when you get hands that hit boards but don't hold up, but that's poker and just because a player plays every hand doesn't mean you are entitled to beat him or get the pots you play with him. But, if played right, over time, you will make much more money from him than he will from you.
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- Jason
 
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Ragnar4's words of stupid wisdom
When a bluff doesn't work, don't bluf
If he's calling 100% of the hands, why not pick a wheelhouse hand, and shove to isolate?
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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we could tighten up...but if a player is playing 100% of hands, we can raise for VALUE with 50% of hands pre. Of course we have to worry about the other players in the hand other than him, but really..if it came down to just me and him im probably raising all aces and kings, all pocket pairs, and large suited connectors and that range is probably still too tight.
post flop, depending on what he bets with, calling down with A high might not be bad. I wasnt there, dont know if he bluffs air alot. I know that we want to be value betting all top pair or better hands, and alot of middle pair and bottom pair hands should be bluff catchers if they arent bet for value...i think they might be depending on boards.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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suited connectors are about 100000000000% worthless in this scenario JKDS. if he literally calls EVERYTHING, i'm not necessarily playing tight but i'm playing PATIENT. whenever i get any two face cards i'm limping (why raise if he's going to call ANY value bet after the river anyway) and shoving if i hit either of my cards. whever i get an ace i'm shoving preflop and whenever i get a pocket pair i'm shoving preflop. in other words play like you have 5BB's in an MTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by surviva316
suited connectors are about 100000000000% worthless in this scenario JKDS. if he literally calls EVERYTHING, i'm not necessarily playing tight but i'm playing PATIENT. whenever i get any two face cards i'm limping (why raise if he's going to call ANY value bet after the river anyway) and shoving if i hit either of my cards. whever i get an ace i'm shoving preflop and whenever i get a pocket pair i'm shoving preflop. in other words play like you have 5BB's in an MTT
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Shove any 2 cards when it folds to you?
Bad monkey
Wrong.
You could argue that you should dump 32o and 72o from your opening hands and shove with all the rest, and that certainly gives you an edge over time....... But I'd prefer a little larger edge to offset the rake/possibility he's going to have a better hand than me.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by surviva316
suited connectors are about 100000000000% worthless in this scenario JKDS.
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JTs is pocket jebus's against this particular villain.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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animal_chin
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by surviva316
suited connectors are about 100000000000% worthless in this scenario JKDS.
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Just wondering why you said this. Seems like a super stupid thing to say when these flop super well and we can shovel on any straights/flushes or good draws that we hit.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by surviva316
i'm not necessarily playing tight but i'm playing PATIENT. whenever i get any two face cards i'm limping (why raise if he's going to call ANY value bet after the river anyway)
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I don't mind limping a great majority of my hands against this type of villain and out playing him post flop (i.e. betting good hands a lot and folding when we are beat, with like no bluffs ever).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by surviva316
and shoving if i hit either of my cards. whever i get an ace i'm shoving preflop and whenever i get a pocket pair i'm shoving preflop. in other words play like you have 5BB's in an MTT
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This is also really stupid. We have to think of other players in the hand that are left to act so shoving any pocket pair, ace, would be retarded when those other players are almost always calling with better. Shoving pocket pairs (at least low ones) is super bad considering that calling and set mining versus this villain is super +EV. And when we do get called by the villain we are probably flipping (which is stupid as fuck to flip against him when we can easily out play him post flop). And on top of all this if we get called when we shove a low pocket pair by another player we are more than effed. Shoving after hitting any of your hole cards is probably bad too, as it sounds like the villain is folding post flop sometimes. Maybe he isn't a complete drooler and only continues with middle pair or better, thus shoving bottom pair would be horrible. Shoving anything preflop besides premiums is so stupid what you just wrote has tilted me. Basically the plays you suggested are slightly "better" than the moronic villain.
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(10:08:39 PM) Bbickes: animal chin is pretty much the balla i wanna be
(10:08:44 PM) Bbickes: drinking every night
(10:08:48 PM) Bbickes: and ballin hard all day
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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SC are very valuable. Just limp them, they play well.
Why would you push when he's the agro tard? It's almost like you're trying to help him play perfectly.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Sometimes you gotta gambool v's a guy like this.
Swigs got it. See flops cheap and help him build big pots when you hit.
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Just playing to improve.
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