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Value bet here?

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AFchung

09-08-2008, 07:42 PM Post subject: Value bet here?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

Should i have value bet on the river? Villain is 51/3/2 over 100+ hands. On the river, he insta-checked

If i v-bet in this spot and he shoves is it still a call?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($1.16)
BB ($2.51)
UTG ($3.16)
UTG+1 ($2.12)
Hero (MP1) ($1.86)
MP2 ($3.56)
CO ($4.95)
Button ($3.85)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A

, Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, 4 folds, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.13) Q

, J

, A

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.33) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.22, BB calls $0.22

River: ($0.77) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $0.77 | Rake: $0

Results in white below:
BB had 2

, K

(high card, Ace).
Hero had A

, Q

(two pair, Aces and Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $0.77

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pilipolio

09-08-2008, 08:01 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2007

Posts: 50

Though the obvious draw made it, there are still tons of hands a villain this loose will call river with. I would therefore bet about the pot and call any reasonable raise.

About the rest of the hand, I think you should value bet harder flop and turn. Make it to .13 or even.15, then again .40 on the turn and shove the rest on the river whatever falls. It seems to me that adapting size bets in order to value bet harder is a key concept to beat micros.

sarbox68

09-08-2008, 08:22 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

If he has the str8, he had it on the flop. The fact that he didn't raise the Turn, and then checks to you again on the River, leans heavily to him not having it. So - you have top two which puts you losing only to sets. If you 2/3 psb the Ri like you have been, you'll pretty much have half your stack in the middle and be committed... so yes, I would call a shove without thinking twice. It's an even easier call given the flopped straight line. I wouldn't give him a free River card (you're lucky a 9 hit and not a T...)... I'd 2/3 psb the Tu (which would commit me) and shove the Ri. If he flopped it, nh. Otherwise, I want his stack.

09-08-2008, 09:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

sarbox: I don't know if you saw the flush card hit

oskar

09-08-2008, 10:40 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

So how often do you think you're beat here as opposed to getting payed off with the best hand, iopq?
I agree with sarbox on the bet sizing.

sarbox68

09-08-2008, 10:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

No flush draw.... two clubs, two diamonds and a mushroom... oh, wait....

So I bet .15 on the flop, .40 on the turn... and if he's still with me (...I'd like some reads here of some kind...), I think he's likely to bet the river with a made flush. Since he checks to me, I'd prolly shove the River as the flush hit might get him to fold out a flopped straight (and there are some nice 2pr hands in his range that will call and lose...), and with any bet I'm committed so would have to call a shove.

Is that better?

Pig_Vomit

09-09-2008, 07:19 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2008

Posts: 165

When he checks the river i'm thinking that he doesn't have the flush cuz if he was drawing and hit he'd wanna get paid.

Bet more every street.

Like i said his river check makes me think he doesn't have it but still has something worth calling your previous bets so I bet for value.

daven

09-09-2008, 07:40 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

you played the hand fine, although you could have bet the turn a little harder - just under pot would be good.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

Chopper

09-09-2008, 01:27 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

the most critical adjustment to these ubermicro levels compared to higher levels is:

bet sizing can be much smaller, and thinner, on the river. villains down here dont raise often enough on bluffs. and, they dont pounce on weakness unless you check.

since we have position, lets use the "thinner" route here. bet something, anything....other than a minbet. there is a lot, at this level, that will call you. get that value!!

flop and turn were fine, size wise, but PREflop sucked. these guys will call BIG preflop raises. pump your premiums up while you have the advantage. you can get away with the same % of pot bets on flops and turns, but you get more of his stack in bigger pots.

look at the difference here:

raise pf to $.12. villain calls, pot is now $.24ish.
bet flop to $.18. villain calls, pot is now $.60.
bet turn to $.40. villain calls, pot is now $1.40.
bet river to $.50, folding to a raise. when villain calls with his one pair hands, or worse two pair hands, you generate a $2.40 pot.....not the $.77 pot.

see the difference in getting your premiums paid? PUMP IT PREFLOP! they will call. if you are on a blind steal with something marginal, keep it smaller....4X is fine. trust me, they wont notice.

as played, throw a quarter out there and fold to a raise.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

jolub

09-10-2008, 05:55 PM

#10 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Michigan, USA

Posts: 80

I'd be afraid he's check raising me on the river.

Chopper

09-10-2008, 06:15 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolub

I'd be afraid he's check raising me on the river.

and if he does, you can safely fold, but a ton of other shit will make a crying call to your quarter river bet. this isnt even a "thin" bet at this level.

i am not paying off a raise; therfore, i dont need a caller but every other time (math not exactly right) to make this river bet neutral EV. at this level, i get called WAY more often than every other time...and i rarely get raised.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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