Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

Using VPIP to determine a Vs calling range

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Jager
Old 10-19-2006, 11:25 PM     Post subject: Using VPIP to determine a Vs calling range #1 (permalink)  
Jager's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
Jager
I can better determine a Villains hand range if I know what his pre-flop raise calling range is. Knowing that most solid players usually only call with PP, AK, and some w/ SC or SG, they are usually easy to play against. If your flop bet doesn't take them down and you have nothing or they raise your TPTK/OP, you are usually beaten. After reviewing my database I have come to the conclusion that most people who limp usually call a raise behind them. At most the difference between a person VPIP and flop seen was 3%, no matter how high their VPIP was and those w/ VPIPs of 30 or more tended to be less than 1%.

Lets say you call a raise w/ PP and AK/AKs/AQs (I have chosen to neglect reraises)
This is 7.5 % of all hands. I think this is pretty standard around here.
If you add in SC(54s+): 10%
+SG(64s+): 12.5%
As you can see a solid player is only calling a PFR w/ at most 12.5% of all hands.

Now if you take any 2 broadway card some players like to play.
Any 2 Broadway cards : 11%
All PP:6%
We are only looking at 17%.

So what are these people who have 35+ VPIPs playing?
My best guess..
Any 2 Brdway + PP + Axs + SC + SG: 23%
Any 2 Brdway + PP + Axs + SC + SG + Any Other A: 30%
Any 2 Brdway + PP + Axs + SC + SG + Any Other A or K: 37%
Any 2 Brdway + PP + Any Other A or K + Any 2 Suited: 51%

In conlcusion if a player has a VPIP of 35 then they are seeing about 36-37% of flops which means they are calling a pfr raise with JT+, PP, SC, SG, Ax and Kx. This is alot of junk 2 pairs out there for your AK on any Axx/Kxx board.

How many of you continue to bet OOP w/ AK on the turn with only TPTK against them? I am feeling lately that I am building a bigger pot for their 'monster 2 pair', although I stack them regular when I hit a set.
BTW I regular check TPTK in pos. on turn to prevent a made hand from C/R turn, to keep the pot small, and to induce a river bluff on a missed draw.
Any other suggestions on how to punish these types of players?
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Elexshun
Old 10-20-2006, 12:00 AM #2 (permalink)  

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Da planet Earf
Posts: 46
Elexshun
Well I think First that in a vacuum nearly any strong player would call PP AK/AQ Axs SC and some SG. I think the limit your playing is important when deciding what your VPIP means. In this case I think just the fact that you are seeing VPIP's of 35 means that you are in the .50/1.00 range or lower. In this case I think your plays against these players should not be to crafty. If you have AK and you make a fair sized raise preflop and you hit TPTK on the flop. The EV move is to bet ! ! ! You cannot worry about two pair in this case unless maybe KQx or possibly KJx in this case some caution is in order However K10x is a no brainer if they are bad enough to be in there with K10 then you should be making a healthy long term profit against this player. with an ace say flop Axx well there is the chance they have two pair but again at this limit the straight forward play of a large bet delivers the most EV for your buck.


Does anyone disagree ??
Reply With Quote
Jager
Old 10-20-2006, 02:23 AM #3 (permalink)  
Jager's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
Jager
Well I always bet the flop and usually the turn when I hit. The situation comes in with weak players calling then raising the turn or river with their 2 pair or better. I am losing money when I have TPTK and I hit, not when I cbet. When they I have nothing they usually fold.
"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
 
Reply With Quote
swiggidy
Old 10-20-2006, 03:17 AM     Post subject: Re: Using VPIP to determine a Vs calling range #4 (permalink)  
swiggidy's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
swiggidy will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jager
How many of you continue to bet OOP w/ AK on the turn with only TPTK against them?
not many without post-flop reads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jager
Any other suggestions on how to punish these types of players?
Are you counting all the times they call your pre-flop raise and then fold to your flop bet? That's a lot of +eV right there.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
Reply With Quote
Jager
Old 10-20-2006, 04:05 AM #5 (permalink)  
Jager's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
Jager
No I'm not counting when they fold, its when they call that I'm concerned with.
"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
 
Reply With Quote
swiggidy
Old 10-20-2006, 04:16 AM #6 (permalink)  
swiggidy's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
swiggidy will become famous soon enough
 So what's the question? What is the most +eV line vs a loose pre-flop caller with no post-flop reads after hero flops TPTK?

I can't answer that, but if they're calling that much pre-flop then raise more (as in more chips, not more often), them folding more pre-flop, and playing more straight forward post-flop is goot.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:46 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.