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hankr
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02-09-2005, 08:30 PM
Post subject: Using / Abusing UB's "All In Protection"
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 34
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Ultimate Bet has "All-IN Protection" where, during the course of a hand, if you "lose" your internet connection, they will "Protect" your investment by starting a side pot (without you, since you're off-line) while closing out the main pot (in which you have full interest).
At micro-levels, I've only seen a couple instances where players, into a big pot and facing a call they probably don't want to make, simply "go offline". UB protects them in that pot, with neither a call nor fold. But in a head-up hand, the betting player's bet just gets cancelled and the cards are played-out All-in style in the other player's absence.
I'm curious... as the stakes increase, I'd expect this would occur more frequently (players killing their connections when they want to neither call nor fold). Is it just an "accepted" element of the on-line game, that everyone practices on occasion? UB allows 2 "protections" each day, so it must occur with some frequency at higher stakes.
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wobbler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 134
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This is not acceptable: it's cheating.
If you misuse allin protection you risk being banned from the site or having your allins set to 0.
It will be pretty obvious to admin that your disconnects are illegitimate if you do this more than once or twice.
At higher stakes, your opponents will be more aware/observant and will report you, so I think this sort of abuse is less common there.
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hankr
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 34
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Well... I'd agree that it is certainly sleazy, and probably cheating.
I had a guy pull it on me when I placed a very big bet into a very big (heads-up) pot at the turn. He had plenty of money to call (and then some), but just went off-line. My big turn bet was returned, and the river played All-In style with no more betting. I won the hand, but not as much as I should have. He came back on-line a couple hands later.
I've only seen it twice at micro-levels, but would expect as the stakes get higher, the behavior gets more prevalent.
I'm just curious what others' experiences are. I assume all on-line sites have some similar "protection", and not all players have the same sense of "fair play", lending the feature to abuse.
And much as I'd like to think the sites monitor players' use of "protection", I'm doubtful that they really do.
What happens if you are "banned"? Do they keep your money? It takes just a few minutes to re-register with a new name even if one does get banned... right?
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Aces
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 832
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hankr
What happens if you are "banned"? Do they keep your money? It takes just a few minutes to re-register with a new name even if one does get banned... right?
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I believe most if not all sites check for your IP address, so if you do want to play after getting banned it will have to be at a different location(computer) with an assumed name. And if they catch on to that your money would be forfeited yet again.
From what I understand, once they ban you, all funds are forfeited unless there are mitigating cirumstances.
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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Interesting, I never considered that it could be abused. I've always just wanted to play good poker.
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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How sure are you that they are cheating? (and if it's planned, it IS cheating)
Some of us are stuck on dial up (I am, and I get kicked off about 1 - 2 time a night. I really really hate it, but the only high speed i can get here is either sat (built in lag, and still not reliable) or T1 at $500 a month. 
Thats the price for living in the woods. 
Edit: I'm not saying that they are not cheating, just saying that we shouldnt hang them on one isntance =)
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wobbler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 134
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I haven't seen allin protection misused alot. Maybe once or twice. People get disconnected now and then, but usually not in critical situations.
How can poker sites use IP addresses to track you? I thought most internet providers used dynamic addresses, where you get assigned a different address every time you connect to the net.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FlyingSaucy
Interesting, I never considered that it could be abused. I've always just wanted to play good poker.
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Yah, it can be. But I don't see it too frequently.
No decision is too hard to need an easy button.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Penneywize
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 885
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Paradise Poker got rid of this. I'm assuming it was because this feature is too easily exploited, and the Paradise support staff probably had to spend way too much time investigating the reports of abuse. If you go off-line, your hand is folded.
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Ayce
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At PokerRoom the NL games have no all in protection, the limit games do but I've never seen it abused.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wobbler
How can poker sites use IP addresses to track you? I thought most internet providers used dynamic addresses, where you get assigned a different address every time you connect to the net.
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Dial-up almost always uses dynamic addressing that is reset each time you connect. Most high speed connections feature a static or semi-static IP (i.e. it only changes when you reboot the modem or in their specified time frame, otherwise it stays the same).
- Jeffrey
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wobbler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 134
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OK, so it's clear they can't use IP addresses to track you, at least not routinely.
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hankr
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 34
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Laeelin...
I am not absolutely sure it was purposeful. I understand dial-up connections DO get dropped.... but UB also provides ample time for a re-connect, which I've seen occur many times.
But I thought it odd that when he returned 2 hands later, he said nothing on chat. When I questioned him about what happened, he gave no reply.
It is clearly a feature that could be used to one's advantage. I was just wondering when the money gets more serious at a table (dollar-and-higher NL games), is the feature "used" more frequently?
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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I see, makes sense to me.
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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I wish 7sultans had protection...
A couple hands ago...
I get JJ in the pocket.
Raise 300 
Flop is J54.
He goes All in!!!!  
 *You have been disconnected*
It folded me before i made it back in
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