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Chopper

11-17-2009, 11:48 PM Post subject: used to be good, now i'm a fish...

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

obviously, i am mostly a limit player these days. but, i have been dabbling with NL again. i have been trying to study the game a bit, and watching some vids both here and CR. before you decide to berate me, i want to provide my thought process...

i have been trying to learn pot control, and am so far a bit clueless. gone are the days where we pot/pot/shove TPTK, that i know. i also felt it best to play this pot WA/WB since i only have 2 outs to improve and have a whole slew of hands he will bluff into my showdown value hand here, imo, based on what i have seen (see read in HH). i thought he folds any non-A hand on the flop since i raised, but he "may" call with a strong J. however, i am behind any A he may have with no chance to catch up if he starts getting aggro. once he pops me on the turn, i wonder what he may have, but cant see how i dont still have great chances with a set since he may just be trying to blow me off a pot like he has everyone else. i only call to keep his range opened up if he is turning his hand into a bluff. i thought shoving over the 3bet turn was only called by KT.

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

READ: villain is table bully....running 35/30/3 at the time. popping everything and trying to blow everyone off pots with marginal holdings when i've seen showdowns out of him...

Stacks:
UTG ($16.40)
UTG+1 ($10)
Hero ($8.10)
BTN ($8.85)
SB ($10.20)
BB ($9.55)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is CO

UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.30

Flop:

($0.95, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn:

($0.95, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.50, UTG raises to $1, Hero raises to $2.50, UTG raises to $4, Hero calls $1.50

River:

($8.95, 2 players)
UTG bets $4, Hero goes all-in $3.70

thoughts?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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dranger7070

11-18-2009, 12:45 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy

Posts: 2,524

dranger7070 has a little shameless behaviour in the past

Completely fine. I just get it in on the turn, but thats just me. The only hand you are afraid of here is AA, which if he l/c UTG with it, good on him. KT is obv in his range for the turn, liek you said, but lol if he has that, again, good on him. He's stacking A7, AJ, J7, JQ, AQ, 77, JJ, etc all of which you totally destroy. Plus if he DOES have KT, you still have 10 outs to draw out, just stick it in.

rpm

11-18-2009, 04:33 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: learnin'

Posts: 2,037

given history i either shove turn or smooth and get it on the river, depending if i think his turn bets are ever bluffs. that said i doubt he is bluffing here and i want it on the turn. i'm rarely giving him credit for anything which beats us, although judging by the tone of your post, he probably showed down AA or KT. i still think he stacks off with a range which makes getting all in with our middle set a +ev proposition (we beat JQ, AQ, J7, AJ, 77, JJ, plus potential combo straight and flush draws he decided to get funky with, and AA and KT which we don't)

spoonitnow

11-18-2009, 03:08 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Reload preflop. Your turn bet-sizing is questionable, both your bet and your 3-bet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

Chopper

11-18-2009, 03:40 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Reload preflop. Your turn bet-sizing is questionable, both your bet and your 3-bet.

thanks. but, suggestions on sizes?

$.75? and when minraised to $1.50, i pop to $4-$5 and call push?

the $.50 was half pottish to induce action from bully to come over with worse reading my lead as weak.....too fancy, even for inducing a bully?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Gobbatino

11-18-2009, 03:41 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2009

Posts: 341

If he's as LAG as you say, then... I'd bet more on the turn. $0.75 at least, and if he gayraises that too, I'd 3bet $4.75, if he 4bets another gay amount, ship. I haven't stoved it but pretty sure you're in good shape vs. his range here, I'd get it in.

spoonitnow

11-18-2009, 04:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

suggestions on sizes?

Sizes that don't give your opponent a billion-to-1 odds on a super draw-heavy board. This isn't LHE, you have the choice of forcing your opponent to either fold or make a mistake. It's not just that you can give him a free card to draw out on the river. Another major issue is that there are a lot of river cards that shut down your action against hands you can stack on the turn.

You got over half of the stacks in, so shoveling is fine on the turn. He's getting better than 3:1 and that price will be too good for some jerkoff like this to fold draws and such most of the time.

daven

11-19-2009, 12:49 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,801

100bb
pre-flop iso bigger
turn bet 0.8, 3-bet bigger as played and try to get it in. He has all sorts of two pair/set/draw hands that you beat and you have outs vs the straight

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

Micro2Macro

11-19-2009, 06:11 AM

#9 (permalink)

Moderator

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Posts: 4,460

On the turn I'd 3bet as large as I could that makes it still look like villain will have fold equity if he jams over otherwise he's just going to call his draws given the nice price since his shove will be a bit large.

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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dtan05

11-20-2009, 09:22 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 16

definitely shove turn

LawDude

11-20-2009, 10:54 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

This is going to be really simplistic, but I think it applies at 10NL 6-max.

Humans were put on this earth to shove all their chips into the pot with a set.

siltstrider

11-21-2009, 06:42 PM

#12 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2009

Posts: 85

I like raising a little more preflop, like 4.5-5bb.

Turn, you need to be more. I'm not scared of his c/r because it makes no sense. Would he really risk you checking back if he had KT? He has no reason to think you're going to bet. Even if he does, I think he has enough Qx, in his range for you to be ahead here.

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