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Unlucky or unskilled?

  
 
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tim532
Old 08-27-2008, 09:45 PM     Post subject: Unlucky or unskilled? #1 (permalink)  

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tim532
I already know the answer to this one.. but could use some advice of how to avoid this. It's happened more than once!

Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 9 player - VILLAIN seemed loose to me.

Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: VILLAIN($5.55 in chips)
Seat 3: HERO($1.70 in chips)
VILLAIN: posts big blind $0.10

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Ks Kh]
HERO: raises $0.20 to $0.30
VILLAIN: calls $0.20
Everyone else folds

*** FLOP *** [9h 3h 5s]
VILLAIN: bets $0.10
HERO: calls $0.10
*** TURN *** [9h 3h 5s] [7c]
VILLAIN: bets $0.30
HERO: calls $0.30
*** RIVER *** [9h 3h 5s 7c] [4d]
VILLAIN: bets $4.85 and is all-in
HERO: calls $1 and is all-in

VILLAIN ended up with pocket 3's and the pot and all my money.

What should I have done differently?

Thanks,
Tim
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OneToughMuff
Old 08-27-2008, 09:55 PM #2 (permalink)  
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raised little more preflop, 4x bigblind.
its just unfortunate..nothin you can do about it.
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Stacks
Old 08-27-2008, 09:58 PM     Post subject: Re: Unlucky or unskilled? #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim532
What should I have done differently?
Buyin for full, which is 100bb ($10). Probably not the best idea to be playing three handed, as it is probably harder to play with less people, as the ranges are wider, and you will be forced to push weaker hands harder. As played raise the flop to around $0.40c or so, and when he bets on the turn shove the rest of your stack in (~$1). Note, this is if you have only a 17bb stack ($1.70), as you do. However, you shouldn't ever be this short. Buyin for full, then when you lose a pot you should rebuy for the full amount again.

Either way, with your stack, you are going broke here.
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Robb
Old 08-27-2008, 11:05 PM     Post subject: Re: Unlucky or unskilled? #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Either way, with your stack, you are going broke here.
With a short stack, you probably should have shoved over the top on the flop, but you'd still be broke.

With a full 100bb effective stacks, we'd probably raise about the size of the pot after Villain's minbet, see what happens on the turn. It's hard to get away from an overpair on this board, but there are classic "I've got a set" signals.

One major one is bet-small/call the flop, come alive on the turn. Take notes. On this villain, note that his min-bet means "big hand." Generally, a min-donk like this means weakness at 10nl.
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oskar
Old 08-27-2008, 11:19 PM #5 (permalink)  
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oskar has a spectacular aura aboutoskar has a spectacular aura aboutoskar has a spectacular aura about
 There is no way you're getting away from it... but for future hands, it's good to constantly make player notes. When an interesting hand comes to a showdown - wether I'm involved or not, I usually already have the player notes open along with the hand history, and I'm keeping track of the tendencies.

There are a couple of things you can note on this hand:
- goes setmining with less than 10:1 odds. Minbets OOP into the initial raiser when he hits his set...


But like everyone said. You shouldn't play this shortstacked. If you're not properly rolled for 10NL (less than 250$ bankroll) then you should play 5NL. It's more profitable to play 5NL or (2NL if available) fully stacked than it is playing 10NL shortstacked anyway.
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tim532
Old 08-27-2008, 11:33 PM #6 (permalink)  

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tim532
Guys, this is excellent advice. Thanks!!

Tim
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will641
Old 08-28-2008, 04:48 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 1) why are you short stacking 10nl
2) never ever ever call flop. raise 100% of the time.
3) as played raise turn
4) as played past turn, call the river, be relatively happy about getting it in.
5) there is never a situation i would fold KK for 20bb that isnt on an A high flop, and likewise, im being as aggro as possible to get in as fast as possible.
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LuckySlevin
Old 08-30-2008, 12:14 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Definately think the advice pre flop is worth remembering tim, also post-flop, even after you'd made the mistake of not raising enough pre-flop, you kind of confounded it with your call of his weak bet, that would be another opportunity to shove (with your stack as you're so short stacked here) or if you were stacked propperly a more conventional pot sized bet back at him.

His bet is really weak so looks like an attempt to buy some info to me - I'd guess at that stage he was drawing to something. In this case he wasn't, he was just a weak player, thats a bad bet he made on the flop after your preflop raise once he's hit his set he should have bet stronger.

That type of small bet would usually indicate some kind of semi-bluff i.e. a draw, or weak pair, or if he's particulary aggresive air. In fact here it's so small all it really indicates is he is a bad player, he's not betting enough to push you out if that's what he wanted, and not enough to get decent value from his good hand.

But getting back to your hand, if this happens again and you have a KK+ overpair to a drawy board you should bet the flop stronger, and make him pay to see the turn. The good thing with this is if he is drawing you make it much harder for him to justify the call, and if he does have a monster like he does here, he'll let you know by going over you, or calling and betting big on turn which should set the alarm bells ringing, but for this to happen you have to bet the flop stronger!
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loktakwah
Old 08-31-2008, 08:33 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Don't listen to anyone who says you have to buy-in full to beat the game. Shortstacking is perfectly viable. To answer your question though:

This hand was played bad.
You got unlucky in this hand.

Both of those statements are true, and that makes for a really bad combination
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wellrounded08
Old 08-31-2008, 02:17 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loktakwah
Don't listen to anyone who says you have to buy-in full to beat the game. Shortstacking is perfectly viable.
The only thing worse than being a not so great player yet who buy's in for 100xBB, is being the easy money fish that buy's in shortstacked, and is not familiar with how to shortstack. Shortstacking is Added Variance that most beginners don't need, Myself included.
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Fnord
Old 08-31-2008, 02:19 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellrounded08
Shortstacking is Added Variance that most beginners don't need, Myself included.
This is more than offset by taking away difficult and infrequent river decisions while you're learning how to not suck on the cheap streets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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