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nossodo
Old 04-06-2005, 05:06 PM     Post subject: underbet bluff #1 (permalink)  

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nossodo
Maybe it's a known strategy but I have noticed that under some conditions, for instance after playing really aggressive, it is effective to mini-bet on the flop instead of a standard 3-4BB raise to scare people off. I think the psychology is that people think you are trying to get them to bet. Sorry again if this is an old strategy, I'm new to this.
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Element187
Old 04-06-2005, 05:12 PM #2 (permalink)  
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everyone knows i pot size bet the flop, so i do use this strat when i run up against another person as aggressive as i am.
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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studboyjoe
Old 04-06-2005, 05:14 PM #3 (permalink)  
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The strategy you mention might scare some people off, but suggests weakness to other players who will go over the top in an effort to scare YOU! Highly player-specific, but effective if you know the style of the player you're against.
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Rondavu
Old 04-06-2005, 05:17 PM #4 (permalink)  
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If you min bet and I caught a piece I call it down. Furthermore, if you min bet and I have two overs, I call it. Personally, I don't think this works out often enough to consider a very effective weapon the way you describe it. Whether you bet heavy or bet weak, I'm folding if I have few options. I see a lot of peope get busted trying to get cute like this. They min bet the flop, get called and then bet heavy trying to look like they were holding the goods all along. Then they get scalped by someone with TP who doesn't really give a crap what your trying to represent.

I sounds to me like you bet this way and people folded causing you to believe they got scared. truth is usually they just have nothing.

A more effective use for a min bet is when you have a great hand and your up against an aggressive weakness sniffing SOB. You bait him into going over the top, and then pop it.

Also, a min bet underbluff looks similar to a semibluff draw. That's another reason it's good to bait a raise when your already strong by min betting because they try to chase you off the draw.

If you flop two pair or trips and min bet, someone with top pair will raise you for information. Just make sure when you do this kind of thing, that your not giving them a chance to draw out on you. Do it on an uncoordinated board. Otherwise just be strong through and through to get them out of there. It really is perfect for when you flop a set.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
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Bo G
Old 04-06-2005, 05:56 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Bo G is an unknown quantity at this point
 Min bet on a river brought out an all in bluff from an over aggressive guy.

POKERSTARS GAME #1467012437: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2005/04/03 - 22:38:15 (ET)
Table 'Kassandra' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: PlanetMars ($68.55 in chips)
Seat 2: radman ($36.55 in chips)
Seat 3: 4Warned ($19.70 in chips)
Seat 4: Johnny_Felix ($44.25 in chips)
Seat 5: DCGunslinger ($57.90 in chips)
Seat 6: stumpper ($69.35 in chips)
Seat 7: Bo G ($95.60 in chips)
Seat 8: HmongDealer ($43.55 in chips)
Seat 9: breaktherock ($61.20 in chips)
Bo G: posts small blind $0.25
HmongDealer: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bo G [Kd Kc]
breaktherock: folds
PlanetMars: folds
radman: calls $0.50
4Warned: folds
Johnny_Felix: folds
DCGunslinger: folds
stumpper: folds
Bo G: raises $1.50 to $2
HmongDealer: calls $1.50
radman: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [2d 9d 8h]
Bo G: bets $1.50
HmongDealer: calls $1.50
radman: folds
*** TURN *** [2d 9d 8h] [2c]
Bo G: bets $10
HmongDealer: calls $10
*** RIVER *** [2d 9d 8h 2c] [Ks]
Bo G: bets $5
HmongDealer: raises $25.05 to $30.05 and is all-in
Bo G: calls $25.05
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HmongDealer: shows [9c 6s] (two pair, Nines and Deuces)
Bo G: shows [Kd Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Deuces)
HmongDealer leaves the table
Bo G collected $86.10 from pot
DCGunslinger said, "lol"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $89.10 | Rake $3
Board [2d 9d 8h 2c Ks]
Seat 1: PlanetMars folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: radman folded on the Flop
Seat 3: 4Warned folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Johnny_Felix folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: DCGunslinger folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: stumpper (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Bo G (small blind) showed [Kd Kc] and won ($86.10) with a full house, Kings full of Deuces
Seat 8: HmongDealer (big blind) showed [9c 6s] and lost with two pair, Nines and Deuces
Seat 9: breaktherock folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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dalecooper
Old 04-06-2005, 06:55 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I use min-bets occasionally as bluffs against smart players. If they call the first one, escalate it to double the min on the turn, and they may start smelling a made hand. But you have to have a very good idea that it will work. Against most players there's no point getting this cute; they don't understand the psychology you're trying to emulate.
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jmontis
Old 04-06-2005, 07:05 PM #7 (permalink)  
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showing weakness is a very good strategy against aggressive players, when you have a good hand that is.
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Element187
Old 04-06-2005, 08:34 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
If you min bet and I caught a piece I call it down. Furthermore, if you min bet and I have two overs, I call it. Personally, I don't think this works out often enough to consider a very effective weapon the way you describe it. Whether you bet heavy or bet weak, I'm folding if I have few options. I see a lot of peope get busted trying to get cute like this. They min bet the flop, get called and then bet heavy trying to look like they were holding the goods all along. Then they get scalped by someone with TP who doesn't really give a crap what your trying to represent.

I sounds to me like you bet this way and people folded causing you to believe they got scared. truth is usually they just have nothing.

A more effective use for a min bet is when you have a great hand and your up against an aggressive weakness sniffing SOB. You bait him into going over the top, and then pop it.

Also, a min bet underbluff looks similar to a semibluff draw. That's another reason it's good to bait a raise when your already strong by min betting because they try to chase you off the draw.

If you flop two pair or trips and min bet, someone with top pair will raise you for information. Just make sure when you do this kind of thing, that your not giving them a chance to draw out on you. Do it on an uncoordinated board. Otherwise just be strong through and through to get them out of there. It really is perfect for when you flop a set.
its not an end all be all strat and that you should use it everytime ...

its just fun tricks to try in the right situations ... like someone said, aggressive maniacs fall for it everytime.
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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dsaxton
Old 04-06-2005, 09:15 PM #9 (permalink)  
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You might get your opponents to fold, but you're also giving them the right odds to call with all kinds of strange hands, like an underpair or one overcard, so this isn't going to be successful very often.

Why not make a more substantial bluff that actually forces your opponents to risk something?
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a500lbgorilla
Old 04-06-2005, 09:51 PM     Post subject: Re: underbet bluff #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nossodo
Maybe it's a known strategy but I have noticed that under some conditions, for instance after playing really aggressive, it is effective to mini-bet on the flop instead of a standard 3-4BB raise to scare people off. I think the psychology is that people think you are trying to get them to bet. Sorry again if this is an old strategy, I'm new to this.
I only underbet against aggro opps with big hands.

Well, usually only...

-'rilla

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Precisely.
 
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Rondavu
Old 04-08-2005, 03:31 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Rondavu
That hand history is awesome. That's a flawless example of how to play a somewhat skillful weakness sniffing aggressive player heads up. Bait him and pop it. So sweet.

It's weird because there are different types of aggressive. Some are maniac aggressive and try to push you around with sub par holdings. Others are weakness aggressive, and check the thickness of the ice before going fishing. Like rilla said, the person your up against has to fit a very specific profile. This guy was even more so. He had to be skilled enough to be at the level where players start to prey on weakness, but not quite advanced enough to know you don't go over the top on a paired and uncoordinated board where the only calls you'll get are ones that will beat you.

That hand is interesting, because I almost approve of his aggression if he had nothing, but don't approve of it since he had the 9. I say that because on a huge raise like that it seems you are trying to avoid show down. He could do much worse than having the 9 to show down with. Just call and hope your a winner in that case. Thank the house for letting you off cheap.

Your bet was perfect because when you min bet the river it said "I don't have a K, and since I'm afraid of a king, it must mean I don't have a 2 either". He put himself on TP right there. Nice job.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Element187
Old 04-08-2005, 03:56 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo G
HmongDealer: raises $25.05 to $30.05 and is all-in
Bo G: calls $25.05
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HmongDealer: shows [9c 6s] (two pair, Nines and Deuces)
Bo G: shows [Kd Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Deuces)
HmongDealer leaves the table
lol he left in a hurry.
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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