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Revolver123
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02-27-2009, 04:33 AM
Post subject: Ugh.. AQ
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 123
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No reads on the villain. AQo and AQs are a money sink for me.. I am down so much with these two hands. I think I should've tossed it on the flop.. my intuition told me I was beat.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($3.35)
CO ($16.72)
Button ($6.23)
Hero (SB) ($7.47)
BB ($7.55)
UTG ($6.16)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , A
2 folds, CO calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.20
Flop: ($0.55) 6 , A , 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, CO raises to $2.45, Hero calls $2.05
Turn: ($5.45) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $4.35, Hero calls $4.35
River: ($14.15) K (2 players)
Hero bets $0.42 (All-In), CO calls $0.42
Total pot: $14.99 | Rake: $0.70
You wouldn't believe what he turned up... situations like this make me think that at these micro stakes you should call with any two cards and then stack someone off when you hit hard because implied odds are so high. hahahah i think im tilting now
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POKEMONS
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
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Fold flop and fail that fold turn.
There's only one semi-bluff in his flop range (78) and even then I would expect him to flat with it most of the time. Furthermore, his giganto raise leads me to believe he has 2pair+ most of the time. Turn has to be a fold since you're pretty much always crushed here. No reason to lose 150bb here.
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Revolver123
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by POKEMONS
Fold flop and fail that fold turn.
There's only one semi-bluff in his flop range (78) and even then I would expect him to flat with it most of the time. Furthermore, his giganto raise leads me to believe he has 2pair+ most of the time. Turn has to be a fold since you're pretty much always crushed here. No reason to lose 150bb here.
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Thank you for this. I feel the same way. I've been reading too many posts that say to "get it all in because of such and such math and such and such equity." This was my last hand of the night and I was tilting because prior my AA got busted by QT 2 pair lol. I used to trust my intuition to fold because I think at micros, when you are faced with heavy leading aggression like this, you are beat 95% of the time.
Most of the advice on this site is very very good. However, it really only applies to 50NL and above where everybody is positionally aware and plays the same starting hands for the most part. There needs to be a microstakes guide written.. other than play tight ABC. One of the first rules could be don't over-value your TPTK when faced with heavy aggression at micro stakes due to the wide wide range of the players as you are usually destroyed by 2 pair or better.
Maybe I'll write the guide when I finally beat microstakes
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Here's rule number one for your guide:
FISH DON'T BLUFF RAISE at the micros, EVER!!!
Seriously, this is possibly one of the most profitable things you will learn lol. Took me a long time to realize this, and a lot longer to implement the proper strategy to counteract it, which is FOLD.
Yes you have TP2ndK but you should NEVER be willing to call a 6x reraise on a flop with it. You are giving away the initiative and you are oftentimes (pretty much always) beat.
And I'm right there with you that AQ is one of my biggest losers. I take it too far in spots I shouldnt.
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Revolver123
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 123
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
Here's rule number one for your guide:
FISH DON'T BLUFF RAISE at the micros, EVER!!!
Seriously, this is possibly one of the most profitable things you will learn lol. Took me a long time to realize this, and a lot longer to implement the proper strategy to counteract it, which is FOLD.
Yes you have TP2ndK but you should NEVER be willing to call a 6x reraise on a flop with it. You are giving away the initiative and you are oftentimes (pretty much always) beat.
And I'm right there with you that AQ is one of my biggest losers. I take it too far in spots I shouldnt.
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Here's the tricky part. Fish don't bluff raise, true. I'm with you 100% on that. But sometimes they do raise with hands you are ahead of. Such as AJ on the above flop. Would you wanna fold AQ to AJ on this flop? (He didn't have AJ by the way, just giving an example). Do you think a fish would fold AJ, call or raise with it here?
The skill comes in discerning when you are ahead of these fish to make money off of them and when you are behind these fish to avoid getting stacked off, as I did in the hand above.
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POKEMONS
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Revolver123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by POKEMONS
Fold flop and fail that fold turn.
There's only one semi-bluff in his flop range (78) and even then I would expect him to flat with it most of the time. Furthermore, his giganto raise leads me to believe he has 2pair+ most of the time. Turn has to be a fold since you're pretty much always crushed here. No reason to lose 150bb here.
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Thank you for this. I feel the same way. I've been reading too many posts that say to "get it all in because of such and such math and such and such equity." This was my last hand of the night and I was tilting because prior my AA got busted by QT 2 pair lol. I used to trust my intuition to fold because I think at micros, when you are faced with heavy leading aggression like this, you are beat 95% of the time.
Most of the advice on this site is very very good. However, it really only applies to 50NL and above where everybody is positionally aware and plays the same starting hands for the most part. There needs to be a microstakes guide written.. other than play tight ABC. One of the first rules could be don't over-value your TPTK when faced with heavy aggression at micro stakes due to the wide wide range of the players as you are usually destroyed by 2 pair or better.
Maybe I'll write the guide when I finally beat microstakes 
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1- You should fold in this spot because your equity sucks.
2- Ranges and equity apply at all levels of poker. The only difference is that calling ranges tend to be much wider at micro stakes and raising ranges tend to be smaller.
3- I am up 837.7 big blinds over 228 hands with TPGK / TPTK on the flop. 875 of these big blinds have come from non-showdown winnings. While its important to learn when to fold these hands, I think you lose more value in not playing them aggressively.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Revolver123
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
Here's rule number one for your guide:
FISH DON'T BLUFF RAISE at the micros, EVER!!!
Seriously, this is possibly one of the most profitable things you will learn lol. Took me a long time to realize this, and a lot longer to implement the proper strategy to counteract it, which is FOLD.
Yes you have TP2ndK but you should NEVER be willing to call a 6x reraise on a flop with it. You are giving away the initiative and you are oftentimes (pretty much always) beat.
And I'm right there with you that AQ is one of my biggest losers. I take it too far in spots I shouldnt.
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Here's the tricky part. Fish don't bluff raise, true. I'm with you 100% on that. But sometimes they do raise with hands you are ahead of. Such as AJ on the above flop. Would you wanna fold AQ to AJ on this flop? (He didn't have AJ by the way, just giving an example). Do you think a fish would fold AJ, call or raise with it here?
The skill comes in discerning when you are ahead of these fish to make money off of them and when you are behind these fish to avoid getting stacked off, as I did in the hand above.
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This is also true, but in your case I think its an easy fold for me just for the simple fact that the raise size is SO BIG. If he had raised to $1ish I call and evaluate on the turn, but he raised 6x your bet. That is such a gross overbet do you really think he raises that much with a hand that you dominate often enough to call that profitably?
If you can, please show the maths and ranges you are using in Pokerstove.
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Revolver123
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 123
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Here's another one. I wanna call this but I just know the villain has a set here. On a board like this, what else would he call my PF raise with and then raise here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($1.90)
Button ($4.50)
SB ($7.75)
BB ($10.15)
UTG ($6)
UTG+1 ($7.15)
MP1 ($8.50)
Hero (MP2) ($24.50)
MP3 ($14.25)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q , Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.50, 4 folds, BB calls $0.40, UTG+1 calls $0.40
Flop: ($1.55) 2 , 4 , 8 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $1, BB raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero folds
Total pot: $3.55 | Rake: $0.15
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Revolver123
Here's another one. I wanna call this but I just know the villain has a set here. On a board like this, what else would he call my PF raise with and then raise here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($1.90)
Button ($4.50)
SB ($7.75)
BB ($10.15)
UTG ($6)
UTG+1 ($7.15)
MP1 ($8.50)
Hero (MP2) ($24.50)
MP3 ($14.25)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q  , Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.50, 4 folds, BB calls $0.40, UTG+1 calls $0.40
Flop: ($1.55) 2  , 4  , 8 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $1, BB raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero folds
Total pot: $3.55 | Rake: $0.15
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3c5c, 6c7c, 5c6c, Ac3c 88, 99,TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, 24s 48s 28s
I'd like to see villans stats before I suggest see the turn and all you can eat if it blanks.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Yea his raising range isn't insanely wide, but there are a lot of hands in it we beat. Really the only hands you are worrying about are: 22, 44, 88, KK, and AA. I'm not sure how many people raise draws at 10nl, so I can't say that that is what is happening.
Anyways, you are still ahead of 99, TT, JJ, tying with QQ.
He could be bluffing with missed overs, or overs and a flush draw.
I'm pretty sure if he's a fairly aggressive (post stats) then it is more than fine to call, and if turn misses ship it like ragnar4 suggested.
If he has been fairly passive I think its a fold.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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A note on top pair, top or second-top kicker:
It's generally easier to make money with these hands when you have the initiative and are placing value-bets in order to suck your opponents into calling with a weaker pair. With these hands you will probably be doing alot of bet/folding because normally when your raised on the turn or river you're beat.
You don't want to be calling off your stack - especially if you've been the one putting the raises in and all of a sudden you get raised. Of course this is opponent specific, so to play 'tricky hands' like AQ you really need to know who you're up against. If the guy is a spewtard he could have AT here however you don't know anything about his play. If he is a huge nit though, he may never raised with worse than top 2.
We could assume it's likely villain open limped a low-mid pocket pair or any Ax type hand, so 2pair+ is making up a huge portion of his raising range. Unless you have some sort of history that this player will be very passive preflop and then just go nuts with nothing postflop, this is a must-fold.
I don't know how people feel about folding the flop, but definately fold the turn. I think it might be a spew if you call the flop raise with the intention of folding the turn anyway, especially out of position.
(O shit now that I look at the size of the raise I'd definately fold flop oop, I can't see a reason for calling)
If I was in position facing a smaller raise, well that changes things and I think you could probably call and at least see how your opponent will act on the turn.
As for the QQ hand, his line does look like a set, but it could be anything for all we know. Please include HUD stats in your hands if you can since it will help with analysis.
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