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The two overs minraise situation

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gingerwizard

06-24-2007, 10:19 PM Post subject: The two overs minraise situation

#1 (permalink)

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9-handed. Effective stack $50. You are 4 tabling and only have a handful of reads on the table.

dealt to you in MP1

Folded to you.
You raise to $2 and the button calls. Pot is $4.75
Flop[

:Jc:]
You bet $3
Button minraises to $6
You?

Its a classic situation, how do we all deal with it?

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zook

06-24-2007, 10:43 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Without a read, I fold.

kmind

06-24-2007, 11:20 PM

#3 (permalink)

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First thoughts is that with no reads I would fold. You are getting 6.7:1 odds of hitting a pair on the turn and 3.2:1 odds of hitting a pair on the turn OR river. Here he is giving you 3.6:1 odds and that is only slightly better than your odds if you get to see the river card for free. It is doubtful that he won't continue to bet though on the turn (I guess this part is debatable). Plus if you do hit, him having a set is in his range here and you will still be beat. Hope I didn't mess up with any of my math here which is likely.

gingerwizard

06-24-2007, 11:35 PM

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Say you have 99 or TT with the same flop and action. Does that make a difference?

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Pelion

06-25-2007, 01:33 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quite often I call it and bet any overcard. I much prefer it on flops without any broadways and T high is much better than J high but Ill sometimes do it here. You have to be very careful of AJ if you hit though.

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bigspenda73

06-25-2007, 03:16 PM

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I don't fold 99/TT here

gingerwizard

06-25-2007, 04:00 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

I don't fold 99/TT here

So if we don't fold 99/TT but we do fold AK/AQ what range are we having him minraising? It's a similar thing to donk leading this and I think that more and more they are becoming prevalent. Incorporating both into our games and finding ways of combating it (if they are not already widely discussed and i've just not heard about them) should be the sort of things we discuss in detail on the strategy boards.

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bigspenda73

06-25-2007, 04:17 PM

#8 (permalink)

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I don't think 99/TT=AQ/AK here.

IMO the minraise is not as much strength as everyone else seems to believe. I see it as a bluff a lot by weak players who know raising could be correct but do not want to risk much of their stack.

Also, whatever hand he has on this flop it makes no sense to raise here.

Geanosssss

06-25-2007, 10:14 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

IMO the minraise is not as much strength as everyone else seems to believe. I see it as a bluff a lot by weak players who know raising could be correct but do not want to risk much of their stack.

i agree ^^^

min bet/raise is dumb

Ltrain

06-26-2007, 12:19 AM

#10 (permalink)

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If you have a good read he is bluffing:

High AF- Reraise. Highly aggressive players bet/fold.
Low AF-Probably not a bluff from a passive player, but if you stay in, call flop, donk turn. If he calls or raises the turn, he has at least a pair and you need to hit the river or fold. Also, with a low AF, he is more likely to check through the river, even with ace high.

I personally like minraising in villians' spot with or without a hand, you would be surprised how often people will fold, or if the player is inexperienced, he will show the strength of his hand right there. It's not weak at all, especially against an obvious c-bet from hero. The flop is the time to test your hand strength or set up for a free card on the turn.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

gop2004

06-27-2007, 01:57 AM

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Quote:

I personally like minraising in villians' spot with or without a hand, you would be surprised how often people will fold, or if the player is inexperienced, he will show the strength of his hand right there. It's not weak at all, especially against an obvious c-bet from hero. The flop is the time to test your hand strength or set up for a free card on the turn.

I've been struggling in dealing with this tactic (the minraise/minbet). It seems to be taking the world by storm. I do not use it myself but I swear to god sometimes it seems everyone else at the table is doing it. I must have missed a new poker book or something. What are they trying to accomplish? They don't seem to care about flop texture, who the PFR was, their position or anything. Since I'm pretty tight, if I'm in the hand I usually am coming from a position of some strength so I can put in a real raise and put them to the test but I'm just trying to understand what the hell is happening.
I've got a HH from this weekend that I'm trying to find and post where flopped a set (not trips) in position against 3 villians. The exact cards and sequence escape me but I believe my set was 888, middle set.
villians Minbet, minraise, call.
I put in a standard reraise to stay in character, got 3 calls!
Turn pairs the board below my set.
They minbet, minraise, call.
I feel like trapping so I call
river is a blank.
checked to me.
I value bet and one guy gets a brain and folds, THE OTHER TWO CALL! Neither had crap.
Someone somewhere must be able to tell me what they think they are accomplishing. Or direct me to the book it came from. Please? The hand above was easy but most of the time we're not so strong.

Those who wander are often actually lost.

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The two overs minraise situation

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