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holdem_newbie
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06-14-2005, 11:51 AM
Post subject: Two Overcards
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11
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Hi there, a play that's bothering me at the moment is this:
For example I limp on the button with J10s so I check to see the flop and the flop comes 9 6 2 rainbow.
The first to act bets out half the pot representing top pair. So with 2 overcards is it worth calling or even raising? At the moment i feel i'm being bullied out of situations like this can someone advise please?
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Staresy
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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even if u are sure that hitting one of your overcards would win u the pot, the odds of u doing so are only 13.2% (on a card-by-card basis).
I would want something more to get me to invest more money at this stage (i.e. a 9 8 2 flop - giving me a OESD, or possibly 2 of my suit on the board).
The other problem you have with a 9 6 2 board is someone could have limped with ....
78 - which negates your T as an out (as it would give them the str8)
J9 - which negatees your J as an out (as they would have 2 pair)
..... or worse, any of the following pp's .....
22,66, 99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK or AA
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
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^^^ very nice.
When you play J10s, you're not really looking to hit top pair.
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G3O
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
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I play J 10s with the pump it or dump it mentality. Like drmcboy said, you are not looking for win w/ a pair on this type of hand. If the flop misses then check/fold. If it hits, (and other factors permit it) then bet aggressively to protect your hand.
In the situation you described, you only have a slim chance at a pair. But even if you hit it, there is an excellent chance you are beaten anyway, and it will cost you lots more than just folding. The other posibility is the miracle runner-runner that will give you the straight. Needless to say, you don't want to invest in that possibilty.
I'm new at this too, so if this doesn't makes sense, then please let me know.
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holdem_newbie
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11
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Yep, that all makes sense.
Thanks for the replies.
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evman150
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 269
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Overcards are poo. They can only be of value when you have some other draw. Say you have QK and the flop is T92. Now you have two overs and an inside draw to the nuts. This would be a hand worth playing. Not the one you posted though. In general, to any sort of bet you should toss two overs. An exception would be in a big pot when some tool min bets you and you're getting like 15-1 on a call.
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Light years ahead of the competition.
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G3O
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
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evman
I have a dumb question for you- what is a "two over"?
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by G3O
evman
I have a dumb question for you- what is a "two over"?
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I think it just means he had two cards higher than the board.
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G3O
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EricE
Quote:
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Originally Posted by G3O
evman
I have a dumb question for you- what is a "two over"?
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I think it just means he had two cards higher than the board. |
duh.. silly me  wasn't sure if he meant 2 cards to a straight or something...
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G3O
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto Area
Posts: 58
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EricE
Quote:
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Originally Posted by G3O
evman
I have a dumb question for you- what is a "two over"?
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I think it just means he had two cards higher than the board. |
duh.. silly me wasn't sure if he meant 2 cards to a straight or something...
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evman150
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 269
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Overs is just a short way of saying overcards.
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Light years ahead of the competition.
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TLR
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,007
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Quote:
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even if u are sure that hitting one of your overcards would win u the pot, the odds of u doing so are only 13.2% (on a card-by-card basis).
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If you have 2 overcards you have 6 outs, which is ~24% to hit at the turn or the river (1-(41/47)*(40/46)).
JT is too weak even if I do hit my pair, because I dont have a good enough kicker, but higher overcards (Ak, AQ for example) it may be worth it to call if you get the pot odds
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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It's a tiny pot.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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