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Lodogg
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01-07-2006, 09:55 PM
Post subject: Transforming from TAG to LAG
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stealing your C-bet
Posts: 199
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I pretty much always play ring games (25NL). I have played a few tournaments, but always find myself stuggling to get in the money. I believe it is because I always play TAG. I haven't developed the necessary skills to become a LAG player when the table conditions warrant it. It seems like the LAG players do very well in tourneys.
1.) What starting hands does a LAG player add into their arsenal.
2.) What cautions should I be aware of when playing LAG.
Thanks!
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I play pretty laggy sometimes, especially short-handed. My preflop raising range expands to include suited connectors, connectors, one-gappers, marginal overcards, suited cards, small pairs and weak aces. I'm basically capable of raising anything other than complete trash.
One thing you have to be cautious of is getting too involved with a marginal hand, since you will frequently find yourself in marginal situations when you play subpremium hands.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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If you're a beginner don't bother with worrying about playing a LAGGy sort of game. Just play TAGG and you will make money. Once you get used to playing TAGG then you can expand your game to become a LAGG.
I only say this because your post sounds like you're a semi-newb to the game. Playing LAGG is great, but it takes a certain sort of knowledge and skill to pull it off...just stick to the basics and expand from there. Plus, at NL25 playing a LAGG style doesn't work very well...
BTW, LAGG players don't always do well in tournaments...They tend to either build a big stack early or bust out early...Playing TAGG will get you further in tournaments, but at some point you'll have to switch gears (this is where being LAGGy or at least pushing small edges will help you).
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Lukie
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01-08-2006, 09:59 AM
Post subject: Re: Transforming from TAG to LAG
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#4 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lodogg
2.) What cautions should I be aware of when playing LAG.
Thanks!
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Playing a dangerous style that is very easy to sink a LOT of money into quickly when you are clearly not ready for it.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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It isnt necessarily that you need to lag it up. I think you my just be missing the oppertunity to limp some marginal stuff like 87 etc in lp in either limped pots or raised pots. Recently ive had a lot of success playing cards opposite to what i think my opponent has and therefore hamering him/her when they miss flops or i hit a big one.
Stealing these pots is what has bulit me stacks in mtts and won me more pots playing NL. I still generaly play a tightish game unless its shorthanded but it may be you need to play more connectors and siilar hands hen given opperyunity in raised pots than actually having to lag it up
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edudlive
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 100NL 6max
Posts: 623
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I can teach you, but I'd have to charge.
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(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by edudlive
I can teach you, but I'd have to charge.
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And edud is like my advice is better than yours.
Damn right, it's better than yours.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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You can't play very LAGGY at the lower limits, especially at a full table. To play LAG you also need to understand position, because LAG doesn't work well OOP. I think the proper term should be PLAG, or positional LAG. All the successful LAG players play tight OOP and LAG in position.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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I play laggy in limit put lack the skills to play laggy in nl there i play tag. One thing i do is bet and raise all suited connectors from the button and 1 off the button if i feel there are enough players to warrant a call in the first place. After the flop i will cap with lots of draws just the same as a made hand. I usually slow down if the turn fails to imprve my hand. Lastly i don't think the 300x bb rule is enough to play a laggy style
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Lodogg
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stealing your C-bet
Posts: 199
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What is a good percentage of hands for a LAG and a TAG player? I run between 20-25%
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lodogg
What is a good percentage of hands for a LAG and a TAG player? I run between 20-25%
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To LAGG is to betray all that is technical, and step into a psychological realm. When you lagg, you pay no attention to percentages. All you care about is your table image, your reads, and your postflop skills. When you equate lagg and hand percentages, it throws up red flags in my mind. Lagg is chaotic. It's a precise form a chaos. It has the look of bad control to your opponent, when you're more in control than they think.
If you want to try lagging, expect to lose. YOU WILL LOSE. It's part of the learning curve. You will lose more often up to 200 NL, because the success of Lagging hinges on a healthy dose of fold equity. You simply don't have it between 25-100 NL a lot of the time. You can find many tables to practice lagging on. Find tight tables at 50 NL. If you're going to try it, give yourself a nice handicap by playing at a table full of tightasses.
Good luck. I don't recommend you do it yet until you develop as a player, but you're your own man.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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posts that essentially say 'I want to transform from a tagg player to a lagg player' make me laugh. (I think) It isn't something you can do. Rather, as you come to learn the game more, it is something where you should just gradually open your game up a bit, and if the situation warrants it, you can play in a way that would cause other players to label you as a 'lagg'. It shouldn't be something you force on yourself.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
posts that essentially say 'I want to transform from a tagg player to a lagg player' make me laugh. (I think) It isn't something you can do. Rather, as you come to learn the game more, it is something where you should just gradually open your game up a bit, and if the situation warrants it, you can play in a way that would cause other players to label you as a 'lagg'. It shouldn't be something you force on yourself.
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This is mostly true. However, playing the opposite style here and there is an excellent way to find strengths and weaknesses in each style. This can improve your game.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I forced myself to open up my game. I intentionally lagged at one point to experiment. It's easy to say that lagging is a result of your skill level becoming stronger, and thus opening you up. I believe the opposite is possible. I believe opening up (lagging) intentionally can make your skill level stronger, if you understand the loss potential. The cost of your education.
You get into a lot of close situations, and have to make a lot of tight choices. This forces you to start making tight reads, and investigate what it is to harvest a tight read. Your board reading skill becomes superior. Everything improves, since you're skating on tight edges.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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I'm officially quoting everything that Rondavu said in this post for truth!
One approach/roadmap to becoming a successful lag is to develop your post-flop skillz and ability to play on the edge in a mid-stakes LHE games, and set yourself a goal to break-even or slightly better over a large enough hand sample. You gotta be bank-rolled for this, and be able to handle the swings while you're learning.
I wouldn't recommend going from TAG to LAG in full table, NL cash games unless you are really willing to pay a lot (read as 'too much') to learn.
I think people can give you some guiding principles and strategies to follow, but in the end the best way to open up your game is to just try it and learn as you go, but you gotta understand that that will come at a price.
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nnylix
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5
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If you play TAG and go all in on the river with the nuts, you'll rarely get called. But if you play LAG, and your non-premium cards are the nuts, you can get some TAGs who will call with their high pocket pairs, TPTK, etc.
If you wanna play LAG, do it selectively (playing from the button or from the BB if the right pot odds are there) and establish at the table the illusion of being an action player by playing over-agressively on the river (instead of value betting every time you have the nuts). What you really want to be is a TAG, but have everyone think you are a complete LAG. Your hands will get paid off more.
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Lodogg
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stealing your C-bet
Posts: 199
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Thanks for all the feedback on this subject...I have taken the advice of opening up in LP by playing hands like 86s, 97s, 54s etc. It seems to be opening up my game somewhat. I actually am quite fond on these one gappers because it disguises the straight a little better than suited connectors. I have only been limping in on these hands, and have been folding with raises. I did call a small raise last night with 75s in LP because three other players called ahead of me. Probably still a pretty loose call.
Thanks again!!!
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Alibi
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Paul or DC
Posts: 449
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Lodogg-
I am currently playing 25nl on Stars and I was playing suited one-gappers and SCs for a bit in lp, especially to raises, but at this level TRUST ME they do nothing but eat at your profits.
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TrapperAB: you know, I really should have named myself after the mandibles of a homeless person
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