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TPTK vs. 4flush board

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09-06-2005, 05:32 AM Post subject: TPTK vs. 4flush board

#1 (permalink)

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How do you play TPTK on a 4-flush board? Say you have AKo, you raise preflop in mid position and the button calls.
The flop comes KJ7 two of one suit and you don't have that suit in your hand.

So what you want to do is probably bet from 2/3 of the pot to the full amount of the pot. Say you bet the pot and the opponent calls.

How much do you bet on the turn if a blank comes? You still can't let unmade hands draw out on you for free.

If the pot on the flop was X and you bet X and the opponent called, the pot is now 3X. Would betting X on the turn be reasonable? Now the flush draw doesn't have the odds to draw, same with middle pair or OESD.

Say a straight or a flush card comes. Do you bet? You don't know which draw your opponent is on, or if the opponent flopped a set of sevens or something. Obviously a flush card is more dangerous than a straight card because the straight card may not complete the straight your opponent was looking for.

Also, after you bet the turn and the opponent calls, do you still bet the river? I mean if the opponent was chasing all the way, you're going to get a fold, but if the opponent is ahead with two pair and didn't feel like you had a draw, you're wasting your money.

Do you try to induce a bluff at the river in case the opponent missed all his draws or do you expect him to call down with second pair?

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DimitriT

09-06-2005, 01:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 614

There's too many points/questions in your message. Narrow it down to a specific issue and you may get some feedback.

Rondavu

09-06-2005, 02:21 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

I'll address the first idea presented. On a Kc Jc 7s board, where you hold AK, basically you want a chaser to pay dearly to draw. Bet no less than the POT amount. Don't be clowing around with 3/4 when two of common straight broadways are present as well as the board being partially suited.

Any time two of these 4 cards flop (QKJT), there's a reasonable chance someone is open ended.

Ok now in terms of putting people on hands when they call your pot bet and a blank comes, think about this...

If the board is Kc Jc 7s, then most opponents are going to raise the flop with two pair or trips, because they themselves are afraid of the draws.

Most of the time you can feel like you're ahead with TPTK when you get a smooth call followed by a blank. Time to bet REALLY hard. I would overbet the pot here. If you get a call at this point, then you have to make a tough decision on the river where there's a good chance you're committed.

Chaulk it up to variance at that point and obey pot odds while playing the board.

You can't play scared. You have to play the odds. The odds say a smooth call on a dangerous board like that against any type of a decent player is a draw. A player will raise the flop with a better hand than you thinking there's a good chance you hang out with TPTK.

Once in a while a really good player who put you on a hand will get tricky to committ you with two pair or trips when you have TPTK, by smooth calling to look like a draw. It doesn't happen very often, because they risk being drawn out on themselves. I've seen it happen when your betting pattern allows them to know you're not drawing. That's why you have to mix that stuff up, because observant players will make things appear a certain way to make you bet a certain way.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

09-07-2005, 06:57 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Rondavu answered most of my questions, except for the dangerous card question which I read about in Hold'em for Advanced players. Apparently in limit check/calling dangerous boards and dangerous cards is good because if you're beat you're not putting money into the pot and you're inducing a bluff BECAUSE the board is so scary. The guy who misses his straight draw might bluff because he knows you probably don't have the flush draw. Tell me if this kind of reasoning works in NL.

What about when someone reraises you on a draw as a semi-bluff? Say you bet the pot, and now you get raised three times the amount of your raise. Does he have you beat? Is he on a draw?

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