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Tournament player trying to win in money games

  
 
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n0thx
Old 01-03-2005, 07:00 AM     Post subject: Tournament player trying to win in money games #1 (permalink)  
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I started playing poker online doing freeroll tournaments on UltimateBet. Starting out as poor as most average players, I was doing no better than 50% in placings most of the time as I was learning the ins and outs of the game. I then got the Pokerstars, PartyPoker, and ParadisePoker software just so I could play more variety freeroll. Now that helped my learning curve tremendously. Since the last month or so, I have become addicted to poker (and blackjack, but that is another topic) and I have aquired the Phil Hellmuth's million dollar bluffs and tells video (I plan to acquire more of the series) and my consistent game just keeps improving. And not just because of a video. lol, I don't want to give that impression.

Anyway, I started joining in real world playing with my friends. $20 buy-in, 14 or so people, nice chunk of change for first place. I've been doing pretty well with them, also.

finally, the issue. I got a money account with Pokerstars to play with you guys in gauntlet, which I still am excited to try at. But I played around with the .05/.10 tables at pokerstars and I would lose even playing smart and conservatively. It could just be a losing streak, but I worry that I am stuck in some type of tournament mode because I have done six SnG tournaments and have won two of them, placed second in one, and placed third in another.

If I am stuck in tournament mode, than what differences are there that I need to realize between those tables and the money tables? Other than the rising pressure of the blinds, of course. If you see another problem in me, though, feel free to let me know.

AND NO RUDE COMMENTS THIS TIME, RILLA!!!!!!

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Hubris1
Old 01-03-2005, 08:34 AM #2 (permalink)  
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There's vast differences between tourneys and ring games online but the biggest four:

1) "You're broke you're done/They're broke they're done." Good players as a whole will play much tighter at the opening of tourneys than the player that doesn't realize this. But they only get to make a few mistakes. As a result of this "You're broke you're done" bluffing and blind stealing occurs later on when largely tighter players have survived.

2) The pressure of blind/ante increase. You mention this in passing, as in you know that, but this is the singlemost important difference. You can camp until your heart's content in a ring game (And at .05/.10 you should camp like crazy, the people at those stakes are madmen.) you do that in a tourney past the first five levels and you're just dead money, slightly higher placing dead money, but dead money nonetheless.

3) Stack size. Stack size does not matter in ring games, in tournaments stack size even outranks position in how you measure a hand. In ring games a good hand is a good hand and a bad hand is a bad hand, period, as modified by position and table. But your stack size never really matters too much since you should either be up or reloaded close to full. (Or you're doing something wrong.) Likewise you're not measuring the same "gap" with opponents because their stacks are again relative, they can reload at any time.

4) Shifting gears. Tournament play is measured less by the hands you get and more by your dexterity in shifting gears. In a tourney, particularly a big MTT you encounter every single type of table condition and stack condition on the way to the final table. You'll hit tight tables, loose tables, big stacks, small stacks, the whole gamut. if you have two average stacks behind you that look like they're camping for big hands then you must shift loose and start thieving their blinds to survive, if you have two huge stacks behind you re-raisnig everything then you're going to have to wait for a monster. Moreover, a table with the same people at it for a half hour straight can have its geography shift dramatically in the course of 45 minutes as blinds and antes change and chips are moved around. Though you'll need to use different styles in ring games at higher limits, you're not likely to be changing styles 6 times in an hour, but in a tourney you're going to be doing more than that.

Sklansky wrote an article about the differences between live and tourney play, not quite the same online, but decent reference.

http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/i...sklansky1.html
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Phlegm
Old 01-03-2005, 02:22 PM     Post subject: Re: Tournament player trying to win in money games #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n0thx
I have aquired the Phil Hellmuth's million dollar bluffs and tells video (I plan to acquire more of the series)
Dont buy anything made by Phil Helmuth Jr.
Goal for 2005: $30k
So far: $31k
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-03-2005, 02:36 PM #4 (permalink)  
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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I would NEVER say any mean comments to anyone. Esspecially someone like you who has the brain capacity on par with a racooon carcass.

Cash game players need to value smaller edges and always putting there money in when they have the best of it. The tounry players need to value surivival, blind stealing and exploiting the structure of the tourny.

With experience you'll be able to make the transition.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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mike4066
Old 01-03-2005, 04:02 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I still think SnG's are a good way to break in a new player to online poker.

But making the switch from SnG's to ring games is something the majority of new players struggle with.
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