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spino1i
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03-03-2006, 04:35 AM
Post subject: The toughest laydown to ever make
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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I was doing a mental excercise trying to come up with what would be the toughest laydown for anyone to ever make in the game of NL Hold 'em. I think this one beats them all!
You and opp have 1500x BB stacks. You raise 4x BB with 76 of hearts on the cutoff and recieve one caller on the button. The flop comes 888, with the 8 of hearts. You decide to try to bluff and bet the pot but you get called (pot = 30x BB). Turn comes a 9 of hearts. You fire a second barrel figuring you can get the opp off the hand still and bet the pot again and get called (pot = 90x BB). River comes a T of hearts giving you a T-high straight flush. This time you think you got the guy and you overbet the pot by 2 times betting 180x BB. The guy pushes!
Now in all likelyhood he has a 8, thinks he quad eights are good and puts you on aces or kings or a set of tens or 9s. But he could also have QJ of hearts giving him the queen-high straight flush (far far less likely but possible). Both quads and the higher straight flush would probably play like their hand was invincible. Furthermore, why would the villain ever call a pot sized bet on the flop with QJ of hearts? (perhaps he thought his queen high was good?) So the question is, if you get that vibe that villain is super-super strong, could you lay down a lower straight flush to the queen-high straight flush here?
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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no
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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No way.
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"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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No.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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El Diablo said he laid down the sucker end of a straigh flush once in an uncapped buy-in game. The other guy was shocked.....and showed him quads.
I've yet to laydown anything stronger relative to the board than a set that still plays both cards.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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I heard that someone layed down a straight flush in one of the smaller WSOP events last year.
Board was TJQK suited, he had the 9, tanked for about an hour, then laid it down. The other guy showed him 2 pair or something, while someone else on the table said they folded the royal preflop.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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If I had the idiot end of the straight flush, but was using both my hole cards I'd never lay it down. Using only one though, I think I could get away from it if stacks were deep and I was meeting enough resistance.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
If I had the idiot end of the straight flush, but was using both my hole cards I'd never lay it down.
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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ue#Post4393984
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Joke thread?
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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Im a calling station so i dont worry about stuff like this
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saywhat2
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03-03-2006, 12:17 PM
Post subject: Dont play scared
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#11 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 113
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The only way you can lay this down is if the board reads 8,9,10,J of hearts. I believe if you get to the point where you are trying to avoid hands like the one you have described you are playing scared. Sometimes you just got to pay it off.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I've yet to laydown anything stronger relative to the board than a set that still plays both cards.
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you've never lain down a made straight on a flush board before?
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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I would NEVER lay down a straight flush. NEVER. I would be DESTACKED, and shake the guy's hand in the process. NH GG....
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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saying never weakens you as a player. There will always be a freak circumstance which will cause you to reevaluate your decision.
What if you had the 4d and in a limped 6way pot the flop came 5d6d7d, there was a bet and everyone called to the turn 8d. All of a sudden someone goes all-in, and the four other players call. Action goes to you on the button with your 4d. Do you call?
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Point taken. Statement was a little broad. Still tough to lay down....
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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You'll have to forgive cardsman. He's a viking with a thirst for wenches.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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jungy121
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 95
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in that situation, i wouldn't lay it down. too many hands the other person could be pushing with.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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the person pushing isn't the problem
its the four other callers.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
You'll have to forgive cardsman. He's a viking with a thirst for wenches.
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Got wenches??
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underminedsk
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reraising you from the button
Posts: 250
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I've layed down a 1 card straight flush on a QKJTs board sucessfully to the royal.
but...are you friggin kidding me? I can safely say I'll NEVER be laying down a straight flush using both of my hole cards. I cannot concieve how someone might thing that making such a play would be +EV, concidering the many hands that you beat that are still trying to get it all in anyway. Most any boat or quads on paired boards, or A high flushes on non paired boards are going to act exactly the same as a higher straight flush.
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online br: $14,000, @400NL full ring, 100NL 6 max
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cardsman1992
I would NEVER lay down a straight flush. NEVER. I would be DESTACKED, and shake the guy's hand in the process. NH GG....
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This should be a routine fold, but for some freak reason (OMG A STRAIGHT FLUSH!!!!11!!) I called:
** Game ID 616041024 starting - 2005-12-18 05:36:35
** Seen My Baby? [Hold 'em] (0.50|1.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money
- webmonarch sitting in seat 1 with $73.30
- sidedish sitting in seat 2 with $82.00
- stoni24 sitting in seat 3 with $98.25
- wicketmike sitting in seat 4 with $109.05
- jpbcash sitting in seat 5 with $127.48
- slettie sitting in seat 6 with $107.55
- tangie sitting in seat 7 with $122.10
- johnny291281 sitting in seat 8 with $187.50 [Dealer]
- mjdhfj sitting in seat 9 with $72.80
- rockstar821 sitting in seat 10 with $96.50
mjdhfj posted the small blind - $0.50
rockstar821 posted the big blind - $1.00
** Dealing card to johnny291281: 6 of Spades, 7 of Diamonds
webmonarch folded
sidedish folded
stoni24 folded
wicketmike folded
jpbcash called - $1.00
slettie called - $1.00
tangie folded
johnny291281 called - $1.00
mjdhfj called - $1.00
rockstar821 checked
** Dealing the flop: Jack of Diamonds, 9 of Diamonds, 8 of Diamonds
mjdhfj bet - $1.00
rockstar821 folded
jpbcash called - $1.00
slettie folded
johnny291281 called - $1.00
** Dealing the turn: King of Diamonds
mjdhfj checked
jpbcash checked
johnny291281 checked
** Dealing the river: 10 of Diamonds
mjdhfj bet - $66.00
jpbcash folded
johnny291281 called - $66.00
mjdhfj shows: Queen of Diamonds, 6 of Diamonds
johnny291281 mucks:
mjdhfj wins $137.00 from the main pot
End of game 616041024
But using both hole cards.. No way. I need a solid read, an unpaired board (so quads isn't a possibility) and 500BB stacks to do that.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Quote:
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But using both hole cards.. No way. I need a solid read, an unpaired board (so quads isn't a possibility) and 500BB stacks to do that.
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Why would you be worried about quads with a SF?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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dude quads beats a straight flush.
<scoffs>
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cardsman1992
Quote:
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But using both hole cards.. No way. I need a solid read, an unpaired board (so quads isn't a possibility) and 500BB stacks to do that.
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Why would you be worried about quads with a SF? |
Because I can't distinguish quads from a higher straight flush. DUCY? 
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
dude quads beats a straight flush.
<scoffs>
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Only a five card quads with the joker
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Fnord-
Quote:
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LOL the best part is my brother tells me, omg, omg you have to see this sick laydown el d made! foo' thinks its all true
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I remember reading the thread when it was first created, and was under the impression it was a joke...
Spinoi- I see what you are trying to do here, but the example you gave is pretty bad. The guy would have had to call 2 PSB's to hit a running inside, 1 card combination nuts with a hand that may have not even been played preflop. And the stacks aren't THAT big compared to the pot right now. At some point, all 2nd nut hands need to be foldable, whether it be 2 card, ass end of SF, or aces full, bottom quads, whatever.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
I remember reading the thread when it was first created, and was under the impression it was a joke...
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Maybe, I don't think it much matters if it really happened. Interesting story...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Best Laydown Ever!
http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/..._play_ever.htm
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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worst. story. ever.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Next step: Laying down a royal flush.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Next step: Laying down a royal flush.
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correction:
laying down....and dieing.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
worst. story. ever.
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I'm disappointed. I would think a nit like you would get it.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
worst. story. ever.
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I'm disappointed. I would think a nit like you would get it. |
tehehe, I am very tempted to show you a couple HH's with you. I like using my 'nit' image against you.
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KY_Ace
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 259
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It's simple mathematics, first lest use the 8d as the 8 that's not on the board, now assume that being deep stacked and having good implied odds your opponent would call your raise with the following hands: QJh, A8d, T8d, 98d, 87d and 86d. Let's even give him the benifit of the doubt and say that he would call the flop and turn bet with QJh. He's still 5 times as likely to have quads as he is to have a Q high straight flush! In 6 trials you get stacked once and stack him 5 times!! You have a straight flush using both of your cards!!! Don't ever fucking muck that!!!!
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{solicitation URL removed by Xianti}
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SinkRox
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
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Call and scoop the BBJ
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Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
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SonOfAkira
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 147
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I actually did this, and until now thought it was a great play and great laydown. Apparently I made a big mistake. The situation was a little bit different. The board was 678910 h, though not in that sequential order. I was holding 45 h, and the 6 was the river card. I had position and the other two players were all in before me. I laid it down, and always thought it was somewhat of an easy laydown at that, and sure enough one of them had the nut flush and the other had the J.
This is a very different situation than the one above, in that it wasn't heads up, and only one heart was needed for the straight flush, but even though i was right, is that being too results oriented and was this in fact a terrible lawdown? It was one of the crazier hands i've been in, in that 10 of 13 hearts we're in play.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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at most sites losing with a straight flush is +ev anyway as there is a badbeat jackpot.
Easy call
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