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Webb87
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02-20-2009, 08:04 PM
Post subject: Tough Hand 25NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 32
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hey guys, here's a hand I played today that I'm confused about and need some help! What do you all think of this hand?
The villain in this hand is a pretty standard TAG player, something like 20/15/3, although I didn't know this at the time because I only had a few hands on him and no reads other than the fact that he was quite active thus far.
UTG ($25)
Hero (SB) ($25)
BB ($12.58)
MP ($25)
Button ($21.14)
CO ($55.03)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J , A
2 folds, CO bets $0.97, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.87, BB calls $0.72
Flop: ($2.91) 2 , J , 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $2.12, Hero raises $7, 1 fold, CO calls $4.88
Turn: ($16.91) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $9.11, Hero ?
My equity is like 25% against a range of JJ+, 99, 22, AJs, KJs, QTs+, AJo, KJo, QTo+
Maybe this range is too thin?
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Meh. I don't think your Jack is good here against his line, espcecially when he calls your flop c/r.
Did you have a plan for when he called your flop c/r? You've already commited 1/3 of you stack. You can't stay in this hand and ever fold profitably on the river. Either fold or shove the turn.
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poker3player333
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 52
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
Meh. I don't think your Jack is good here against his line, espcecially when he calls your flop c/r.
Did you have a plan for when he called your flop c/r? You've already commited 1/3 of you stack. You can't stay in this hand and ever fold profitably on the river. Either fold or shove the turn.
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Great analysis of the hand. This is a difficult call, did he pair his Q, 2 pair the flop or turn? It sounds good to fold here.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Fold.
TBH, I usually fold or 3bet this preflop. If it's not good enough to raise, it's probably not going to fare well OOP after the flop.
The call here against an unknown puts you in positions like this post-flop. If you knew more about the preflop raiser, then you could put him on a more accurate range post-flop, and you'd be able to play this profitably.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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calling is "ok" PF although I'd be much more inclined to call from the BB and 3bet or fold from the SB (frequencies depend on how active this player is and how he continues against a 3bet)
Raising the flop is just not that great w/o a lot of history (mainly he needs to view you as over-aggressive and spewy). I'd typically c/c all the way down here, betting the river if he cbet+checked turn and possibly c/f'ing the river if he 3barrelled and jammed the river.
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Webb87
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 32
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Quote:
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Did you have a plan for when he called your flop c/r? You've already commited 1/3 of you stack. You can't stay in this hand and ever fold profitably on the river. Either fold or shove the turn.
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This is a good point as when I look back on the hand I definitely wasn't thinking about what to do if he called. Usually I'd just go with my instincts and play according to how I feel about the hand, the turn card and if I checked, his action or bet sizing. I'll keep these thoughts about having a plan and thinking ahead in mind and try to practice it more.
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TBH, I usually fold or 3bet this preflop
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I do 3BET this preflop often, but I also like reads on the players at the table. I'm not sure this was the right approach but 3BETing a wider range is still something I am working on.
Quote:
calling is "ok" PF although I'd be much more inclined to call from the BB and 3bet or fold from the SB (frequencies depend on how active this player is and how he continues against a 3bet)
Raising the flop is just not that great w/o a lot of history (mainly he needs to view you as over-aggressive and spewy). I'd typically c/c all the way down here, betting the river if he cbet+checked turn and possibly c/f'ing the river if he 3barrelled and jammed the river.
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Sound advice, thanks. I was hoping for a detailed response like this.
I should have added initially that I wasn't really looking for answers about what to do at "Hero ?" but more so how to play the entire hand. I know as played the turn is a fold and that's what I did, but I was very uncertain about the rest of the hand. So here's a couple questions based on the replies thus far:
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frequencies depend on how active this player is and how he continues against a 3bet
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This is good, would you mind expanding on it a bit? I'll take a shot at it and say that it's a good 3BET if he's actively open raising in late positions and if we know he calls light and doesn't 4BET bluff?
I agree with c/c all the way and the rest of your lines. The reason I raised the flop was just because it was a 3-way pot and I was playing out of position against what looked like a standard CBET which could be air. In hindsight the flop is very dry and a call would have been much better for pot control. However, lets say as it was played, what is your line on this turn? Is it check/fold or bet/fold or bet/call? Thinking back to what kb coolman was saying if we bet the turn we are committed? And lets say a non Q or K rolls off, how does that affect our line?
Thanks for the help thus far guys.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Leading seems better than c/r'ing if you think about the ranges an average opponent would continue against both actions (much more value in leading).
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I donk if the guy raises ATC on the flop
in that case I can put in two bets against his whole range
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
I donk if the guy raises ATC on the flop
in that case I can put in two bets against his whole range
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Who raises ATC on the flop?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
I donk if the guy raises ATC on the flop
in that case I can put in two bets against his whole range
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Who raises ATC on the flop? |
I do. If someone donks into me I just raise ATC because I'm the preflop aggressor, bitch.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Well I'm glad I'm not the only one...
But without history, we just taking the bullet train to valuetown.
The V runs with an AF of 3, which I don't think is enough to expect this type of play. Still, leading might be best, if only because it defines hands better.
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