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realgenius
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07-06-2005, 09:38 PM
Post subject: Top Pairs killing me
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 152
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Need some help with some hands that have killed me several times over the past 24 hours. Each time I've flopped top pair with a good kicker. Two examples are AJ and KQ. Every time I seem to be UTG. So I bet strong, get called, bet stronger, get called. bet strongest get called. Each time a guy in the blinds has 2 pair K4 or A3. Is it as simple as me not raising preflop with these hands?
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journey075
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07-06-2005, 09:39 PM
Post subject: Re: Top Pairs killing me
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#2 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by realgenius
Need some help with some hands that have killed me several times over the past 24 hours. Each time I've flopped top pair with a good kicker. Two examples are AJ and KQ. Every time I seem to be UTG. So I bet strong, get called, bet stronger, get called. bet strongest get called. Each time a guy in the blinds has 2 pair K4 or A3. Is it as simple as me not raising preflop with these hands?
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no reason to raise AJ/KQ utg.
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underminedsk
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reraising you from the button
Posts: 250
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the quick answer here is: dont play these hands at all in early position. I found that they were HUGE leaks in my game, so I fold AJ, KQ, KJ, QJ, AT, etc until late position.
With these cards, you will never be sure that you arent dominated by higher high cards, and if you just limp with them EP, you have no idea whats coming in behind you. Did that guy who's calling/raising just flop two pair? Set? even TPTK? The worst part is you dont have position for the rest of the hand, so even if you do hit you could lose alot of money to a better hand who has position on you, or even a weaker hand could push you out because you cannot be that confident if your Ace pairs on AJ...
I even limp/fold AQ and limp AK in if I dont think I can secure position for the hand by raising.
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online br: $14,000, @400NL full ring, 100NL 6 max
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Strung
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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Agreed, I'm not strong enough post flop yet so I just either limp these hands UTG or just fold them. Raise these late MP/LP to buy the button, way easier to play from there.
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realgenius
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 152
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You guys are right. I need to think more about position. I should know better. I actually stopped playing AJ, KQ, AT, QJ and when I did I was winning good money. For some reason I threw discipline out the window the last few days and started playing dumb again. Thanks for the refresher.
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This is a true story. I'm not a paid actor. FTR does not guarantee any results. People can and do lose money when playing poker.
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journey075
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by realgenius
You guys are right. I need to think more about position. I should know better. I actually stopped playing AJ, KQ, AT, QJ and when I did I was winning good money. For some reason I threw discipline out the window the last few days and started playing dumb again. Thanks for the refresher.
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you dont have to stop playing them, but raising weak hands like KQ/AJ UTG is silly.
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realgenius
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 152
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Well I would never raise preflop with them, I would just limp in, but then I'd hit top pair and I'd bet into the guy who flopped 2 pair. And since they never reraised me, I never had a clue where I stood.
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This is a true story. I'm not a paid actor. FTR does not guarantee any results. People can and do lose money when playing poker.
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journey075
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by realgenius
Well I would never raise preflop with them, I would just limp in, but then I'd hit top pair and I'd bet into the guy who flopped 2 pair. And since they never reraised me, I never had a clue where I stood.
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if youre playing against loose passives you can probably camp better cards since youll get paid off just the same.
up to you really.
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Well, it depends on how tight or loose your opponents are playing. Against really loose opponents, those hands are not bad at all.
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spino1i
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Well, it depends on how tight or loose your opponents are playing. Against really loose opponents, those hands are not bad at all.
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Against loose opponents they are STILL bad. Think about it. You limp in with KQo or AJo and 5 others call. You have crappy position in a 8-way pot. Even if you hit top pair your almost certainly behind to some random two pair or set or flopped straight.
If you are going to play these hands in early position, minraise them. However, you only want to do this in short-handed tables. In a 10-handed table you should not be playing KJs, AJo, or KQo in the first three positions. Those hands are just too weak.
When you get AQo, AQs, AJs, or KQs in early positon, raise them! Raise them enough so that you dont get 5 callers.. you want 3 people in the hand max.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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AJ, KQ, KJ, QJ, AT
These hands are raising hands with position for a good post flop player. I limp them from EP. If you fold them from EP, then you're missing out on opportunity. They are at least worth a flop out of position. The only time I might consider folding one of these hands from EP is at a super aggressive table. Otherwise call and sneak in strong.
Position is very important, but it's not everything. People who fold these hands from EP have not considered relative strength. These hands are boss in a limping pot. The bottom line is if you have the best preflop hand you should be seeing a flop, and if you have the best hand postflop, you should be taking down the pot.
Remember that some hands have AA, AK, and QQ pitted against each other, while others have KQ, QTs, and 44. You need to be taking advantage of those opportunities.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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i agree with rondavu, but only on a table where 4 or more see the flop and normally isnt a raised table preflop.
but the majority of tables i seem to find, its too aggressive to sneak in.
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