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Vinland

10-31-2008, 01:32 PM Post subject: Too loose with AK? Let me know!

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2008

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Posts: 610

Vinland is an unknown quantity at this point

Early in session, no reads on the player.
PokerStars Game #21583052384: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/10/29 0:28:58 ET

Table 'Amneris' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
BB: rey22 ($2.44 in chips)
UTG: paddy86 ($2.68 in chips)
UTG+13: jeremy_2121 ($1.18 in chips)
UTG+2: daver911 ($3.79 in chips)
UTG+3: jerm burn ($2.10 in chips)
Button: solsberry ($1.37 in chips)
SB: Hero ($4.05 in chips)

Hero: posts small blind $0.01
rey22: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Kc Ac]
paddy86: calls $0.02
jeremy_2121: folds
daver911: raises $0.04 to $0.06
jerm burn: folds
solsberry: folds
Hero: calls $0.05
rey22: folds
paddy86: calls $0.04
*** FLOP *** [9c 4h Kh] Pot:$0.20
Hero: bets $0.12
paddy86: folds
daver911: calls $0.12
*** TURN *** [9c 4h Kh] [2d] Pot:$.44
Hero: bets $0.18
daver911: raises $0.18 to $0.36
Hero: calls $0.18
*** RIVER *** [9c 4h Kh 2d] [Qc] Pot:$1.16
Hero: bets $0.15
daver911: raises $0.15 to $0.30
Hero: calls $0.15

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.76 | Rake $0.05
Board [9c 4h Kh 2d Qc]

Should I have been more wary of the fact that the player seemed unfazed by the K? In a SitnGo I wouldve folded on turn or river for sure, but in ring games I've seen some screwy hands get called down so I felt I should go for it.
Hand spoiler: Hi-lite the below line...
Opponent had pocket A's and obviously won.

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kb coolman

10-31-2008, 01:59 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

What's your read on this player?

Your turn and river bets are just weak, and you look like a calling station. Other than that, you've got the ride odds to call with TPTK on this board. He could easily be raising you with KQ or KJ.

EDIT:

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Vinland

10-31-2008, 02:13 PM

#3 (permalink)

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It was early in the session so I had no reads yet. It was the second hand I played.
I felt like a calling station...
I felt the same as you...on the turn I thought he had KQ or KJ. The queen on the boared scared me.
I made a small bet on the river b/c I knew that he would re-raise, I didn't want it to be too high a price in case I felt I should call and lost.
I think I should have bet higher PF or on the flop to see where I stood.

10-31-2008, 02:33 PM

#4 (permalink)

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3b PF and if he calls you would stack off on this flop

oskar

10-31-2008, 02:44 PM

#5 (permalink)

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3-bet preflop.
As played - if villain is c-betting a lot: check-raise.
Against passive villain: bet more.
As played: raise the turn.
check-call on the river wouldn't be bad imo. You wan rut to induce bluffs from busted draws, and not face an ugly decision if you get raised.

Too loose? Seriously?
What kind of monster range do you put him on and why?
It would be good to post your thought process, and what range you put him on PF and on each street.
Why did you flat call PF? Why did you bet 1/2 pot OOP and so on. I'm not saying it's wrong, but poker is a complex game.

Vinland

10-31-2008, 02:50 PM

#6 (permalink)

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As mentioned, I had no reads. It was very early and one of my first hands.

I felt I was too loose on turn and river because he seemed completely unfazed by the K on the flop. I figured he had K w/ good kicker or AA's.
The only reason I called his reraise on the river is b/c I have seen some really bad hands get called down so I figured If he had AA's then I'm beat. Otherwise I felt I would have the better kicker to his pair of K's

oskar

10-31-2008, 02:55 PM

#7 (permalink)

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I just saw that... did not edit in time.
Generally I think it's better to check into the preflop raiser. Where I play they tend to c-bet like 80% in this situation, and you can pop it up.
On the river against your usual passive donk you're beat here most of the time, but it's too cheap to fold. You have to maximize when you do have the best hand in these spots though. You have to bet as much as you think you can get away with. The less you win when you do have the best hand the more likely you are to go broke on coolers and suckouts.
Money not won is money lost.

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kb coolman

10-31-2008, 03:28 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

3b PF and if he calls you would stack off on this flop

+1. Overwhelmingly +EV.

What about if he shoves after the 3-bet? Gotta put him on aces?

checkoutftr

10-31-2008, 03:29 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Memphis

Posts: 26

conversely money not lost is money won :P AK is definitely my biggest leak. I tend to way overplay it. Especially late in tourneys when I will get called down by any small pair (and I never? tend to hit that magical AK

)

The other day I literally swore that I would play a set of tournaments that day and I would not go out of tourney with AK (I know i know i should not make generalizations like this but I was just so frustrated with constantly losing all my chips with AK). Funny enough I had my deepest cash in a while (5th in the UB $6.60 for $130).

Keep in mind that now I only play tourneys (AK killed me in the cash games as well)

One place that I would continue going broke with AK I guess would be HU SNG's. There you just have to heave it in sometimes and pray

Good luck

kb coolman

10-31-2008, 04:12 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

The key with AK is to get it in the pot pre-flop, other wise they loose a ton of value. That being said, it's still only a drawing hand, so pre-flop AI is bad play (although I wouldn't critize it in HU tourney play or calling the short stack AI loose player).

Here's why I try to build the pot (within reason) pre-flop:

1) If you don't have money in and it hits, other player are less likely to put any more money in the pot, and you have not maximized your gains.

2) If you put it AI pre-flop and it doens't hit..you screwed yourself.

kmind

10-31-2008, 04:51 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Posts: 4,240

The bet on the flop is because we have top pair right? No other reason, correct?

JKDS

10-31-2008, 05:23 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Location: Chandler, AZ

Posts: 1,024

to clarify, 3betting preflop has an important reason that hasnt been addressed yet. We are OOP. The main reason for 3betting this hand is to try and nullify our positional disadvantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OngBonga

But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.

Pino_Diablo

10-31-2008, 06:43 PM

#13 (permalink)

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...you had top pair top kicker in SB and your BB has rockets? you are kinda hammered.

in your position i woulda just called it down..as it was not the nuts

11-01-2008, 04:28 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

3b PF and if he calls you would stack off on this flop

+1. Overwhelmingly +EV.

What about if he shoves after the 3-bet? Gotta put him on aces?

I fold to a shove unless I have a read or the guy is short-stacked

Stacks

11-01-2008, 05:09 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pino_Diablo

...you had top pair top kicker in SB and your BB has rockets? you are kinda hammered.

in your position i woulda just called it down..as it was not the nuts

Do you even know what you are trying to say here?

oskar

11-01-2008, 07:13 PM

#16 (permalink)

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not teh ntuz = just called it down

The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.

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