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EasyT

04-07-2005, 07:52 PM Post subject: Time to get off the pot?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

Posts: 834

Sh*t or get off the pot?

For everyone that hasn't read a few of my posts: I'm a newbie. Never played poker until last summer. Started playing home games. Bought a few books. In August 2004 I was given $2 free at Paradise Poker. When that was gone, I bought in for $50. When that was gone, bought another $50. When that was gone, another $50.
In December I found FTR.
Bought in for $100 at Empire. Started reading FTR and realizing what I fish I am. Started thinking about pot odds, and implied odds. When my roll got down to $50, I bought it back up to $100.
I've tightened up to 22% VP$. Basically now I'm playing break even poker with a short BankRoll and the variance has busted me (My AA got cracked for my whole stack and I'm now sitting on $14.00).

So my queston:
I have some money in my checking account I can spare and Empire is running a 25% bunus this weekend for re-ups. Should I take the plunge and buy in with an actual bankroll? I think $250 is the minimum suggested to play $25 NL tables and $5+1 SnGs.

I'm definitely still in the learning curve, but have been losing a lot less money than when I started. I don't multi-table, so the bonus will take me awhile.
I really enjoy the game but may not yet be a + player yet. What I mean to say is that for $50, I can ENTERTAIN myself, and my poker interest for, say, at least 30 hours of play. But eventually I know I'll be bust. This is partly because of my play and partly because of my small BRoll. Playing short makes me pay close attention, but also makes me 'play scared' (timid, weak) sometimes.

So, how many of you say:
"If you're gonna play, play with a real bankroll".

And how many:
"If you're not a winning player, entertain yourself with $50 and try to get better before making a commitment."

Thanks.

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a500lbgorilla

04-07-2005, 07:57 PM

#2 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

If you have the money to spare. Definitly.

In 6 months, when you're playing 100 NL. You'll be thanking everyone who lead you to this decision.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Fortune 500

04-07-2005, 08:56 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Bluffalupagus

Posts: 1,261

250 is about right for 25 NL... and I assure you it's more than sufficient for 5+1 SNGs.

Get your own operations graphic here:
http://operations.talkingapes.com

JeffreyGB

04-07-2005, 09:46 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

With $250, you could concievably do $10+$1 SnGs and still be well within your roll. Technically, even $20+$2 is within that range, but that's leaning on the upper limit. That said, I understand not wanting to play so high while learning and I myself tend to play at SnGs that I'm vastly overbankrolled for, as it makes me more confident.

Assuming full buyin, $250 is a bit low for NL$25. It's livable, but a rather close call. Last I heard, the standing recommendation was approaching 30 buyins ($750).

A big part of me wants to recommend you find a site with NL$10 to learn on. If you question playing with $250, then I'm not sure that it will really result in you playing comfortably. If it will, then go ahead. If not, just think how easily you'd play at NL$10 with that. I know UB offers such stakes. I think Pokerstars does as well. Bonuses will be slow (specifically at UB), but the learning experience will be good. Plus, from what others have told me, UB offers slightly tougher competition, so if you build your roll learning to beat NL$10 there, when you have the $500 to $750 for NL$25, you'll be ready to destroy them. My experience has been that UB's NL$25 played stronger than Party's NL$50 and stronger than Interpoker's NL$100. Thus if learning is your goal, lower stakes will give you a cheaper learning curve.

If you stay at Empire/Party, make sure that you will clear the bonus within the required time (since you mention single table play). Shouldn't be a problem for $60 or so (5x = 300 raked hands = 600 - 700 actual hands, I'd guess), but pay attention to make sure you do.

Summary: Yes, that $250 covers the SnGs you want. It's close in regards to NL$25, but livable, especially if you're going to be comfortable. If you're not going to be comfortable with that amount, there are sites with lower games where you will feel comfortable.

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

EasyT

04-08-2005, 12:40 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

Posts: 834

I have an account (with no money left in it) at Paradise Poker, and I know they have smaller $2 and $10 NL games. I don't like the software at Paradise because It's slow with the dial up, and takes so much of my antique computer's space/memory/drive that I can't surf the net at the same time easily. The last time I played there, I was dealt AA the very first hand of a MTT and had it folded due to taking too much time to act. I didn't have a chance to close my other windows as the table opened and the T began.

Other than that, the rest of the tourney went fine.

So how's the competition compare at Paradise to UB and Party?

JeffreyGB

04-08-2005, 01:24 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

Never played Paradise myself, but from what I've read it can vary from slightly tougher than Party to on par with UB.

Speaking of interfaces, IMO, UB has the best interface anywhere - largely because of the mini-view (though I've also witnessed far more bugs on the Party and CRL networks than with UB). Can't speak to bandwidth usage though, as I've had broadband since I've been playing.

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

eeeee

04-08-2005, 01:43 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: SoCal

Posts: 906

My honest-to-goodness feeling is that you should earn your way. I don't want you to read this post as harsh, but as a caring response to your question. I know 'Rilla is way-smart, and has been playing poker quite a while, and probably cannot remember ever playing for pennies (hold on 'Rilla, I'm not going to totally contradict you, ) BUT I don't think your mindset is ready for spending money on poker. e.g.:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyT

What I mean to say is that for $50, I can ENTERTAIN myself, and my poker interest for, say, at least 30 hours of play. But eventually I know I'll be bust.

Yes, playing with a tiny BR can let variance eat up your game.
Yes, earning a bonus will offset your anticipated losses.
But you might as well be asking me if you should spend $250 on a new TV set, because you are asking about spending money on entertainment. And if I were shopping for a TV, I would ask all my friends and the guy at the store, but no matter what anyone says I'd buy the $250 TV that I like best.

But if you want to make money, IMO, you have to have the attitude that you are going to make money. Not that you won't ever lose. But if your game is about a feeling when you win a fun hand, and then about losing a little money while playing waiting for another big hand, then you are setting yourself up for misery; you might as well start drinking too. I'd like to think one can earn an expectant attitude by crushing one's penny game, then crushing the dime game, then ... well you get the idea.

I'm am nuthin' in poker, and don't know nuthin' either, but that is a little glimpse into my mindset. I don't want to put my hard-earned money into someone else's pocket. I see others at FTR that showed up after me, and they are moving up faster than myself, but I also see too many posts about "busting out again." That's not me, and when it is me, I'll be gone from poker. If I'm not taking money out of the game, I will re-evaluate. The game is awesome, but the money is more important than the game for me.

Something that's been said before in other ways: The lowest limits on one site seem to play much like the lowest level on other sites. 2 cent tables at Stars aren't much worse than 25 cent tables on Party. So if you are going to "buy your TV" and offset the cost of it with a bonus you could do worse than playing at a Party skin.

If your decide against the TV and decide to work up, then play within your bankroll to fend off variance. Stars is a solid place to learn, without any signup bonuses, so you don't have to worry about "wasting" a signup bonus with a small deposit. It plays quickly through dialup (I understand Soupie is on dialup there) and works on even the crappiest of my two computers. There are other sites with micro SNG's and penny stakes, but I can't vouch for their software.

Best of luck.

I'm a know-it-all.

No, really.

SmackinYaUp

04-08-2005, 02:34 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: B N L

Posts: 1,725

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyT

I don't like the software at Paradise because It's slow with the dial up, and takes so much of my antique computer's space/memory/drive that I can't surf the net at the same time easily.

Maybe you should go with paradise then.

a500lbgorilla

04-08-2005, 02:44 AM

#9 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Quote:

Originally Posted by eeeee

I know 'Rilla is way-smart

POTD

Worth re-reading. (And not just this part

)

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

eeeee

04-08-2005, 02:54 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: SoCal

Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by eeeee

I know 'Rilla is way-smart

POTD

Worth re-reading. (And not just this part

)

-'rilla

[nerd]
:bows low:
e says
Thank you, Sith Master
[/nerd]

I'm a know-it-all.

No, really.

04-08-2005, 03:45 AM

#11 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

{This post has been removed}

JeffreyGB

04-08-2005, 03:49 AM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I'm holding a bankroll management seminar on Tuesday

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

DWDuck

04-08-2005, 02:26 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Canada eh?

Posts: 178

I don't know if this is up your alley..... but have you considered bonus whoring your way up to a decent bankroll? Play the cryptos every month, hit any party reloads... do that for a while and you'll have a 1K bankroll before you know it.

I started with $100 on Empire and managed to get my way up to $800 playing SNGs and some ring. A bad run sent me down to $300... while not life threatening by any means, I had to move back down a level and start the trek back up again. I set a goal of a BR around 1.5K. So I learned the limit game better (I think I've read everything Fnord has posted here now), got an account almost everywhere..... the BR is back up to $800, and I still have the empire reload and a few other big ones to hit. It can be a bit of a grind, but having a nice BR to play with in the end will be sweet.

A nice bonus is that learning the limit game well is helping my play in NL as well.

Just my $0.02. Although I won't transfer it to your account like Rippy might...

Darkwing

EasyT

04-08-2005, 04:34 PM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

Posts: 834

Hey, thanks everybody.
And rilla, I did read it twice.
I faught back a little with my $14 last night while (un) deciding what to do.
Triptaines sat at my table which was really cool. The other cool part is that I left with $110, and Triptaines had about $65.

More consideration necessary. Leaning toward moving sites and moving down in limits. I sort of was hoping to get a decent stack at Empire and then taking advantage of the sign up bonuses elsewhere.

Hey, I'm still learning. It's definitely about making money, and not JUST entertainment. I do enjoy the game a ton. Just enjoy it more when I'm winning!

studboyjoe

04-09-2005, 04:01 PM

#15 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 130

Hang in here, there's a learning curve with poker that only advances with experience.

Bankroll advice of the day:

Play with a bankroll high enough that you don't think about it when you are playing. If you do,
it's too low.

With regards to paradise poker: Lots of small stakes MTTs, my wife loves them playing on my account and has been in the money 7 times in the last 2-3 weeks and final table twice (3rd and 5th).
She got better as a player than I am playing there,
how sad is that???????

Pokerstars is tougher, Party is easier, imho. small stakes SNGs at Party, I'm in the money like 3/4 of the time, with runner runner bad beats the rest. You should do very well there, just not as good a selection of small stakes MTTs. (unless you like 2 and 3 table MTTs)

Sharky: I've got good news and bad.
me: what's the good?
Sharky: we all voted you Most Valuable Player!
me: what's the bad?
Sharky: It was at our weekly poker game!

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