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fade177
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12-11-2005, 03:35 AM
Post subject: Tighten play and getting worse?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 144
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Has anyone here ever noticed a negative difference with tightening their ring game play? I haven't been able to play regularly, but my reads are still pretty solid. I'm making some good folds (I'm making folds that just a month ago I couldn't and I'm pretty proud of myself for it) and some good moves on the player, but I find that I'm not making nearly enough to justify playing this tightly and the pots I lose to fish are more than the ones I'm winning (sounds strange, but it's true, if it weren't for SnG's my BR would be in decline) I went from playing around 25% to right around 13-14% for the last month. It's workin fine in the SnG's (makes me think i should just stick to these) but my ring game play has been below average? Any ideas or suggestions?
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Variance. When you hit a cold streak playing that tight you start to think it's TOO tight. You'll see. You'll have a streak of hitting hands and getting paid off. If you are playing 13-14% of the flops, that indicates you aren't getting the cards to see the flop with.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
If you are playing 13-14% of the flops, that indicates you aren't getting the cards to see the flop with.
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Or that you are playing too tight.. unless you have a tiny sample size.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Tightening up Pre Flop should have the effect of consistently playing better cards that your opponents. If that is not the case then it is just variance.
Image could be one way to make this happen though. If people see you as a rock and fold to most/all your PFRs then you would find it hard to make money. You will have to decide for yourself if it is image affecting you or not.
Finally, I would just caution against being too tight post flop. Are you making lots of good laydowns with TP putting them on better? This could be too tight. If you think this might be the case then post some hands for evaluation. Get some advice.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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I believe there are two common mistakes (that I can think of) that occur when a player tightens up. Playing tighter is normally not the direct problem but can sometimes lead indirectly to other problems. The first is becoming too passive. A lot of players associate tightness with passivity which will usually result in less earnings in my opinion. The other mistake is exactly the opposite. You're seeing less hands so you have developed the mentality that you need to earn more from the few hands you are playing, in respect, twice as much with a vpip of 13 compared to a vpip of 26 since you're seeing half the hands. This results in over aggressiveness and overcomittment to hands. You're trying to force your good cards down the throat of your other players even when they're not the best hand, only the best whole cards.
With this being said, I think the second mistake might be what you're doing. The reason i believe this is because you said it helps in SNG's. When you're playing tight in SNG's most of the hands you enter will be when the blinds get high and you're usually committing your stack preflop. Odds are better for you this way so you will naturally win more.
Honestly, I would suggest loosening up in late position for your ring play. Try to get your vpip around the low 20's. While you're not playing the premiums anymore (I suggest suited connectors, gappers, etc) you're also frequently playing more postflop action and the tendency to feel like you have to win has been slightly alleviated. I had this same problem and this solution has helped me tremendously. Added bonuses include looser table image ("this guy is limping or even raising!!! suited connectors or gappers in late???") and will get more of those premium hands payed off.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
I believe there are two common mistakes (that I can think of) that occur when a player tightens up. Playing tighter is normally not the direct problem but can sometimes lead indirectly to other problems. The first is becoming too passive. A lot of players associate tightness with passivity which will usually result in less earnings in my opinion. The other mistake is exactly the opposite. You're seeing less hands so you have developed the mentality that you need to earn more from the few hands you are playing, in respect, twice as much with a vpip of 13 compared to a vpip of 26 since you're seeing half the hands. This results in over aggressiveness and overcomittment to hands. You're trying to force your good cards down the throat of your other players even when they're not the best hand, only the best whole cards.
With this being said, I think the second mistake might be what you're doing. The reason i believe this is because you said it helps in SNG's. When you're playing tight in SNG's most of the hands you enter will be when the blinds get high and you're usually committing your stack preflop. Odds are better for you this way so you will naturally win more.
Honestly, I would suggest loosening up in late position for your ring play. Try to get your vpip around the low 20's. While you're not playing the premiums anymore (I suggest suited connectors, gappers, etc) you're also frequently playing more postflop action and the tendency to feel like you have to win has been slightly alleviated. I had this same problem and this solution has helped me tremendously. Added bonuses include looser table image ("this guy is limping or even raising!!! suited connectors or gappers in late???") and will get more of those premium hands payed off.
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Dude its a good thing you gave up the rhyming!!
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Dude its a good thing you gave up the rhyming!!
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Exactly why I stopped. I didn't want to post at FTR anymore because of it 
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LOL OPERATIONS
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fade177
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 144
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My good laydowns are getting rid of big PP's preflop, KK use to be a big leak, but i've succesfully laid it down PF now. Also, the other day I flopped top set with four players and I was in the BB. I bet the pot was called by a loose player. The board puts a third diamond up on the turn and I had to lay down my set to the K-high flush chaser. I was pretty happy with that one.
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We are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world
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fade177
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 144
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i think my tight play is a result of a cold string of cards and a little variance. I'm not finding the situations to exploit lately. Like I said I feel I'm getting better and that I'm playing some good poker, just not getting those prime situations right now....
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We are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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Most of the time my decision to play loose or tight depends on the quality of my opponents. The more passive, the looser I get as I will be able to draw much cheaper and probably get paid off (stuff like suited gappers and offsuit conectors).
With tough aggressive opponents I find i have to tighten up considerably as I need to flop big to play back at them (PP and strong A's).
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