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Three 5nl hands with confusing spots

  
 
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EasyPoker
Old 05-02-2010, 12:44 PM     Post subject: Three 5nl hands with confusing spots #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is 8/5/8 over 213 hands. Since he called my preflop bet in the BB + his stats, I assume he's employing a super tight range, considering his aggression postflop.

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $5.01
Hero (SB): $6.61
BB: $5.00
UTG: $5.26
MP: $4.72
CO: $10.00

CO posts a big blind ($0.05)

Pre Flop: ($0.12) Hero is SB with T 9
2 folds, CO checks, BTN calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, BB calls $0.15, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.65) 8 9 3 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.30, BB raises to $0.90, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.45) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.50, Hero folds



Here, Villain is 39/16/31 over 46 hands. Thus his range ldo fairly wide, and given this board could consist of draws, overcards, trips and sets. Was I right to bet turn?


Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $12.50
Hero (CO): $7.93
BTN: $2.55
SB: $5.79
BB: $2.98

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is CO with T J
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.47) 9 A 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, BTN calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.87) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, BTN raises to $0.80, Hero calls $0.40

River: ($2.47) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.35 all in, Hero folds


Here, villain is 18/9/18 over 36 hands. I'm thinking I should have 3bet higher, or shoved preflop.

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $5.43
BTN: $5.36
SB: $11.81
Hero (BB): $4.75

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BB with A A
1 fold, BTN raises to $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.45, BTN calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.92) Q Q 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, BTN calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.12) J (2 players)
Hero bets $1, BTN raises to $4.31 all in, Hero calls $2.70 all in

River: ($9.52) K (2 players - 2 are all in)
[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
 
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tyrn
Old 05-02-2010, 02:29 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: Fold flop. His range is overpairs, sets, and made flushes. Folding on that turn just reinforces that you should have folded the flop.

Hand 2: I would bet 40c on the flop and c/f turn, unless he bets something like 1/4 pot. That looks more serious, and gets the pot big enough that it's easy to get stacks in on turn/river when you do hit.

Hand 3: I'd reraise 60-70c pre, especially since you're out of position. Easier to get stacks in sooner when board looks good if he does call. Flop bet is good, turn too. I think given dryness of the board and the fact you hold Ac, turn may be a fold. His range = AQ,KQ,66,JJ if you include KK you have to add in QQ. I really donno what he could have that you beat. Pretty sure it's a fold, despite 30% pot odds.
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eugmac
Old 05-02-2010, 02:35 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: Read on BU? PF raising in the SB seems marginal if he's loose and you're going to be called a lot and playing OOP the rest of the hand. If BU had folded then stealing vs this nit in BB is great. When the nit calls you and he raises your cbet on the flop, it's time to GTFO.x

Hand 2: I like to open 3x these days in LP to correspond with our wider range. Crappy spot when you're in the CO and BU is a loose retard who'll make you play out of position a lot from the CO. I hate cbetting this type of player 'cause he folds so seldom, but since we have nice equity I think betting is good, if we think he'll fold a non-Ax hand enough of the time. I'd bet bigger to try and accomplish this, and give up if called and turn bricks.

Hand 3: 3bet bigger PF OOP, like to 0.52. Shoving preflop, no, bad. Anyway after 3-betting to 0.52 and getting called, the pot would be 1.06, then you can bet like 0.75 or so on the flop, setting up a turn shove. How does that sound?
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Imthenewfish
Old 05-02-2010, 05:02 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: I would limp preflop because I don't want to isolate OOP with 910s. Fold to flop raise.

Hand 2: I would usually open that for 3x preflop, but 4x shouldn't make that much of a difference this hand. I'd check OOP on this flop, but if I were to be I would bet $0.30 on flop instead $0.20. (Betting the same amount usually looks like a clear bluff to me. Only exception is fish who spam min bet to build the pot) I would still bet a smallish amount the turn if it didn't complete some straight draws; with the intention of buying the pot on most rivers assuming he just calls the turn.

Hand 3: O_o I've never been dealt pocket aces
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Carroters
Old 05-02-2010, 06:23 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 1. Preflop is good, now just fold to this flop raise. Like other have said you're up against a range of better made hands and draws that have pretty damn good equity vs you, there's just no point in calling this flop whatsoever.

2. I'd bet the flop a little bit harder just so we don't induce any calls/raises from weaker hands and make sure we fold out as much as we can with our c-bet. I wouldn't make it too big at the same time though. On the turn I don't think there's a wjole lot we're folding out, I wouldn't trust this guy to fold a 9 or some random TT or weak ace enough here and i certainly don't wanna fire 3 barrels at this dude. I'd just go ahead and c/f although betting is okay since we'll build a bigger pot for when we do make our stright on the river and be able to extract a good bit of money. This just wont happen that often though so I prefer just c/f to a decent bet and trying to get a free card.

3. Bleh I'm not happy about this spot at all vs this nitty looking guy. Hand is ok up until the turn - don't shove preflop that's just retarded and loses so much value - I'd 3 bet a bit larger oop though to 3.5x. I might make a nitty fold here on this turn just because his line looks so strong and non bluffy. I don't think calling can be a huge mistake given these odds though, when he might be spazing with some random pair but honestly I expect to see a better hand a lot. Actually nah I call just because he can be being rtarded and feelig comitted with like AK or TT 99 or some crap. Not happy though, but your bet size can have caused some sort of spazz.

 
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surviva316
Old 05-02-2010, 08:17 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 hand 1: PF iso is good against most limp fish, but reads on BU are still important here. is he the type who's going to limp/fold too much? is he the type who's going to limp/call only to fold to cbets too much (in which case we should be iso'ing to get him off his hand on the flop)? is he the type who's just never folding ever (in which case we should be iso'ing so that we can get a street or two of value out of a weak flopped TP or get his stack when the board runs out awesome for us. you're postflop game probably isn't strong enough to iso this hand against this type of villain).

i fold flop because even the bottom of his range (AcJx type hands) have ~50% equity against us, and there's all sorts of stuff against which we're drawing all but dead. it pains me to tell you this, though, because you coulda very easily figured this out yourself just giving a range in this thread to be critiqued and then pllugging it into stove.

hand 2: again, postflop reads are important here. i'm betting flop like .25->.40 and turn .80->.97 against most 40/15's here, though. i'm never shoving the river when we miss

hand 3: my standard sizing is .50 when i'm 3b'ing a 3x's open OOP 100bb's deep, but i'd make it like .60-.65 here because this is likely a bad 5nl player who doesn't know the difference whom we're not gonna be 3b bluffing OOP much anyway and probably isn't going to change his range much based on sizing anyway. again, reads help though other than "18/9"

fyi, flop is a classic WA/WB situation. 76s/65s is the only hand we beat that has more than 2 outs against us, and we have two outs to any hand that beats us. that makes this spot actually very very very very very simple from a theoretical standpoint. just choose the line that gets the most streets of value out of 99 type hands and/or that gets AJ to bluff the most and/or that gets us to escape the hand for cheap when he has us crushed
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Micro2Macro
Old 05-02-2010, 08:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 h1 fold to flop raise as others have stated, your equity is going to be awful here at worst he's semibluffing overs+fd or weak pair+fd. run stove against that and account for your positional disadvantage to conclude how bad bet/calling is.
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rong
Old 05-02-2010, 10:13 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 1. c/f flop.
2. bet sizing is awful.
3. Yuck. I prob c/c turn & river if I can get it cheap, but it's villain dependent, if I think he calls cbets without catching much & folds to the second barrel then leading the turn is ok.
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hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.

Fucking. Retarded.
 
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kmind
Old 05-02-2010, 10:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 1. I see no reads on BU...fold to raise after cbetting
2. Bet more on the flop, c/f turn
3. B/f turn
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daven
Old 05-03-2010, 05:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 overall, your postflop sizing seems too small.

hand 1 - fold flop is pretty easy here.
hand 2 - pre-flop fine, flopsizing i prefer 25 or 30, turn isn't really a good spot to barrel. Check-call or check-fold depending on odds.
hand 3 - sizing pre is fine, bigger is a little better tho. Flop is an interesting spot, it's bet-fold barring reads. Turn is bet-fold $1.40 as played. Unfortunately, your sizing makes this a sick spot and i probably call.
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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kmind
Old 05-03-2010, 06:10 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 Yeah you definitely have sizing issues in each of these hands.
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EasyPoker
Old 05-03-2010, 02:31 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind View Post
Yeah you definitely have sizing issues in each of these hands.
I don't bet high enough, no?
[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
 
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littleogre
Old 05-03-2010, 06:00 PM #13 (permalink)  

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 hand 1 bet fold flop
hand 2 bet more on the flop
hand 3 fold to his reraise on the turn.

Oh and raising suited connectors is usually better then calling.
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EasyPoker
Old 05-03-2010, 09:34 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by littleogre View Post

Oh and raising suited connectors is usually better then calling.
How come?
[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
 
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kmind
Old 05-04-2010, 12:53 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
I don't bet high enough, no?
Yeah like the first two you can be getting more value and in the last one if we bet bigger can get some value while more importantly force opponent to bluff us less so we can happily fold to his raise.
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rpm
Old 05-04-2010, 08:16 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 hand 1 i don't really see why you're raising preflop, but i don't play 6max so it's quite probably standard. i probably bet like 3/4 pot on the flop for hand protection against any small pair/club or missed overcards which have decent equity against you. as soon as he raises i think you are crushed. best case scenario is probably he has Acx which is a small part his range and has 40-50% equity anyway.

hand 2 i'm probably betting .35 on flop because we have decent equity against anything that calls except 88-99 so we probably dont need to a high fold % for a cbet to be +EV. i don't like betting the turn though because your opponent is loose, and he probably doesnt fold much of his flop calling range at all. plus your SPR is pretty low. and your hand has no showdown value unimproved. your opponent told you he has at least a pair or a draw on the flop. T7 completed, 87 picked up more outs and he never folds an ace. so i don't like betting. as played once he minraises you have to call because you are getting roughly 4:1 direct pot odds with maybe another 2:1 behind which is probably never not going in on the river.

hand 3 shoving is bad imo. good way to lose value from 99-JJ, AK, AQ which can all make deceptively "strong" hands postflop in a 3bet pot. i make it .50 or .55 pre because we are OOP. flop bet is fine, i'd probably lean more toward 3/4 pot or greater because i expect all of 88+ to peel at least the flop. once the jack falls you likely lose all action from 99,TT and JJ got there. it's also likely that he jams KK pre so we can discount that to some degree. i probably c/c. or check and vbet the river if he checks behind (which i think he never does with any Q) i can't think of much you beat when he shoves on the turn and thus, don't like your call.

good. now i can see what people with worthy opinions had to say about these hands and see how i compare
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littleogre
Old 05-04-2010, 10:10 AM #17 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
How come?
well the simplest reason is over the long haul you will make more money by raising the flop then c-betting the you will by str8 hunting. Most micro players are fit or fold players. Meaning unless they flop a pair or draw they will fold to your c-bett. Another reason is if you raise and get rid of a few players you have a much better chance of winning when flop you second or 3rd pair.Knowing what turns to to double barrel when your c-bet is called also helps.
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