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Robb
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11-23-2008, 09:14 PM
Post subject: Thoughts on discipline - noobie needs it
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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I can't count the times I've seen noobies in the BC talking about "taking shots" under-rolled, refusing to stick a bankroll management plan, getting "sick and tired" of grinding at 5nl until they have enough for 10nl, etc. Just lacking poker discipline. So I'll tell a story.
I've been doing well at 25nl, winning at 6 ptBB/100 over 20k hands this month. And I placed 2nd in an MTT for $600. Now I'm blessed with a bankroll far in excess of my skill - yeah, I could have been rolled for 50nl last week, if I hadn't withdrawn some.
The temptation to do something STOOOOPID is almost overpowering. Maybe some of you know my basic degen instincts. Some of you don't. But trust me, I luuuuuuv to gamboooooool.
So I find myself scrolling through MTT's for buyins WAY above my bankroll (and even further above my skill level - I suck at MTT's). And I'm looking at the 100nl BBJ tables. And then I get up from the computer for an hour 'cuz I know I'm losing it. The money's too big, too fast, and doesn't seem real. Easy come, easy go.
And when I get back to the computer, I go right back to grinding 25nl, just like I was before the windfall. And my results and concentration dip a little. But I get refocused and have some solid sessions.
And I realized this. I learned a lot of discipline grinding up to a nitty 25nl roll of $800. I learned a lot of discipline hitting my stop-losses during earlier sthots at 25nl and then moving back down before I went I busto. And I needed EVERY BIT of that discipline to keep from making a huge discipline mistake worth hundreds of dollars.
Just a story. Take from it what you want. If you're a noobie, though, I hope you consider setting goals for yourself and finding the discipline to accomplish them.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Tilt is the dumber part of your brain turning off the smarter part of your brain. You can't fight it, you can only identify it. What you do after identifying it is up to you.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
What you do after identifying it is up to you.
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What if we choose to fight it?
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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If your rolled for $50Nl and you feel like playing $50NL go ahead. Don't starve yourself until you snap and drive into the nearest McD's. Just have a little taste and see if you agree with it. BUT STAY IN YOU ROLL. If you lose, you drop down, whether you can beat the level or not.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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and this
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ly-t64393.html
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
What you do after identifying it is up to you.
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What if we choose to fight it? |
go for it, it doesn't work for me. I just note it and try to let it pass.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I think it can be fought sometimes. For a while there I felt a real strength of mine was the ability to identify tilt and either force it away, or identify that I couldnt win this time and quit before it affected me. Lately I havent been so good at that though, so its high on my list to address again.
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Just playing to improve.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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What I didn't know, and what I think some newer players might not realize, is that every emotional response to poker (tilt, lack of discipline, poor focus, w/e) is worse the bigger the stakes. Part of grinding up a roll is learning the needed emotional skill set to be successful when the stakes are huge.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I think you may have accidentally been doing things to alleviate tilt and thought it was you fighting it off. Though, maybe that's what you meant by fight it.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I'm not quite sure what other definition of fighting off tilt you'd be using. Basically I can feel tilt build, often almost like pressure in my head. If I can relax and get back to a normal state of mind I can keep playing my best poker. Sometimes I cant, and thats when I should quit.
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Just playing to improve.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Yah, i guess i like the imagery of "alleviate" vrs "fight" but same idea
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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LuckySlevin
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Poker Room
Posts: 1,050
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I think it's helpful to look at the emotion as an indicator and not an obstacle to be overcome. It's a warning system indicating that there's an imbalance for example, by just trying to ignore / 'fight' negative emotion you just amplify the original emotion. I think it's best to just aknowledge it for what it is. The key is not be judgemental (of yourself, or the emotion) and just watch it - the effect of standing back from yourself and assuming the position of observer is quite powerful.
I think at the end of the day whatever means people use to find their 'inner strength' thats the best way to conjure discipline, especially in the heat of a testing situation. Personally I have found speaking to God has helped me quite a bit. =)
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I'm glad you posted your experience here, Robb. It's something I've talked about with new players (and some not-so-new players) for a while. It's exactly why I recommend every new player to poker to start at the lowest of the lowest stakes with a tiny deposit and build it up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I'm glad you posted your experience here, Robb. It's something I've talked about with new players (and some not-so-new players) for a while. It's exactly why I recommend every new player to poker to start at the lowest of the lowest stakes with a tiny deposit and build it up.
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Yeah, spoon, I thought about linking several of your "discipline" threads in OP, but ~ meh ~ I couldn't find the discipline to grind it out. 
Seriously, though, I 'm sitting there on the brink of disaster. As I realize it and stand up, I'm thinking, I'm really glad I took the long road to get here. Several thoughts from a few of your threads over the last 6 months came to mind, along with some simple sanity.
It's the micro-grinding process, not the results, that taught me the most.
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renee_walmer
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Tilt is the dumber part of your brain turning off the smarter part of your brain. You can't fight it, you can only identify it. What you do after identifying it is up to you.
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very well said
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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That wasn't god, it was spoonitnow on IRC.
But I'm sure he's flattered 
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