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Buzz
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02-09-2006, 09:08 AM
Post subject: A test of patience
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 112
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Well after about my first 1,200 hand of .01/0.02 trying to build my bankroll I have to say .... goddam this game can be FRUSTRATING.
I'm trying to play nice and tight, beenusing AOK's 19 hands. Fold fold fold fold fold fold oh cool KQ on the cutoff, button raises 5xBB ... crap! fold - fold fold fold some more .... KK thats better, but UTG has raised ... I'm not letting this go - re-raise, he goes all in, ok I call if he has AA good luck to him ... Jh 4s what was he thinking ... I'm looking good here ... running spades, flush to him, KK busted. Fold fold fold fold ...
I did get my bankroll up to about $118 from $100 but its heading south, back to $105.
Talk about a test of patience ... its so damn ahrd to be disciplined when clowns are tripling up with nothing!
/end rant 
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Staresy
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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Yes, it sucks big time, but in the long run, you will make money playing this way. It is probably just variance.
The crucial test is
1. can you maintain discipline and not get lured into the trap of thinking "well, these people can call with crap and get lucky, so will I"?
2. keep the tilt demons away?
If you can, you are on your way to making money. There will come a time where you can do absolutely no wrong.
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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OK, what have you learned in your first 1200 hands? What have you observed for your site and the tables you play? Is there a small adjustment you can make that will increase your winning pots? Or is there a hole you can fill to decrease your losses? Or both?
1200 hands isn't that much. But it's a start. Going down $13 on $2 buyin playing 19 hand poker means you are probably making some poor post flop decisions when your good hands are beat.
19 hand poker is just a system to keep beginners out of trouble and create a strong foundation for confident preflop and postflop play. I don't think you're ready to start moving beyond the 19 hands - especially at .01/.02 where you have to win with cards every time. However, you do need to analyze 2 things:
1. how much can i make this sucker pay when i have him crushed. You should be making HUGE moves at pots with monster hands - especially postflop. 19 hands is about crushing people for making poor choices.
2. how often do I have that "i think i'm beat" feeling and STAY IN THE HAND? That's where you're causing your winnings to go slower than they should.
Remember fish don't push without the nuts (or close to it). So if they have the balls to reraise you or push on you then they have whatever they shouldn't (2 weird pair, a set, a goofy straight or flush that they overpaid to get, etc.). DON'T PAY THEM OFF.
At .01/.02 you are essentially Nut Hunting. Getting monster hands and making everyone pay. Start exploring different ways to play the 19 starting hands you use. Keep Records. Make Observations. Find Patterns that Work. Notice patterns that mean "they caught up with me".
gl. and above all - enjoy playing poker. 19 hands is about patience but it's also about ENJOYING playing. Because LOSING SUCKS!!! It keeps you from losing. You've played 1200 hands and you're a net winner. That's better than most people can say when they start out.
(I read your examples, but there's more to it than that when you burn 6 buyins in 1200 hands.) Don't focus on the suckouts or bad beats, you did the right thing with KK. Where ELSE is your money going?
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Buzz
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 112
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Good advice both of you, thanks. I am using poker tracker and I'm slowly learning to use that to identify leaks ... although I acknowledge 1200 hands isn't a big enough sample, I'm only looking at 7 QQ hands, 6 KK and 4 AA I think.
With regard to your points 1 and 2 above ... I honestly think I'm doing OK there. I'm prepared to put good money behind the strong positions I do have - I just seem to get sucked out a lot. On point 2 - I do fold a fair bit on the turn when my bets get reraised significantly. The furstration comes is when someone else calls and they show a worse hand. I folded QQ recently to a strong re-reaise with the board 6 7 8. To me it looked like either the straight or AA .... I folded someone else called and he flipped JJ. I'm losing on some of those hands when I've bet strongly on the flop/turn and someone comes over the top - as you advise I give them credit for hands (mostly - unless my read is the villian is a guy who bets on anything).
Anyway good advice, its all a learning process ... patience being a key lesson at the moment. I'm certainly getting some practice in avoiding tilt when my premium hands get cracked
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A beginner trying hard to learn not to be a donkey They say you should keep a journal so mine's online ... read here for a laugh!
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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sounds like you're on the right track. just have work the game.
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Zorlock
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4
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Playing 2NL can be a real pain in the ass. Sure as hell you are going to win even if you just play mediocre poker at best. But short term, the variance can be devastating. With a 100$-roll I would actually suggest you go try out 10NL. The players sucks here to, but you will at least experience something that feels a little bit like real poker. Actually I would consider 100$ to small to start out online poker, I think its better to save 500 bucks and get started right away. However, 500$ can mean different things for different people. I sure as hell thought 500$ was a lot of money when I started out with my 20$ LOL. But if you could, in some way, manage to spare 500$ that would give your poker "career" the starting boost it needs.
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Staresy
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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I may have misunderstood what you are getting at a little here, Zorlock, but I don't necessarily think that having a massive BR behind you is a necessity.
Fundamentally, the key thing is to make as many correct decisions as you possibly can, which in turn leads to you maximising the money you make on your winning hands and minimising your losses when you're beat.
If you get this mentality that you need a huge roll to start playing, you might get sucked into the trap that the profit you make is so small compared to your overall roll that you start to move up in stakes before you're ready, financially, emotionally and ability-wise.
Obviously you need to have a fair roll behind you to get started to cope with the swings, but essentially you just want to be beating the game at the level you're at and use other people's money to move up in stakes.
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Buzz
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 112
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Thats my approach Staresy ... use other people's money to build the BR.
I felt like I made the same decisions today and this time doubled my buyin, didnt get the suckouts
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A beginner trying hard to learn not to be a donkey They say you should keep a journal so mine's online ... read here for a laugh!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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