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TerryToma
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10-24-2006, 05:14 AM
Post subject: Terrys 10k fulltilt checkup (not pretty)
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Heres my stats from 50NL. Been on a slide as of late. Comments appreciated.
compare to my good old days of poker before the ban, at ongame 50NL last month:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...901&highlight=
Compared to last month, my stats really arent that much different other than the winrate. i was 22/11 previously now im , 25/11 but a lot of that is attributed to a full ring being 10 players vs 9 players. Aggresion stats about the same. Im flopping sets, and not getting paid  . I suppose the players are just tougher, and I need to adjust my game. Also a lot of the little things are adding up and costing me $$. Leaks in my game are now becoming more apparant. Let me know what u think!
Terry
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Do my eyes deceive me?!? Terry isn't destroying his chosen stakes?  I don't know man. If your stats are the same it could very well just be some variance. Do you think could've avoided many of your major losses? Are you missing value on your monsters at all? Are you bluffing too much? Are you calling big river bets too often?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Looks like you're playing too many hands in the blinds.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Running bad from the blinds and a less than 50% W$@SD% pretty strongly correlate to just plain shitty luck.
Don't fuck with your game too much.
Ignore that results-oriented bullshit about your blind play.
Focus on playing well in big pots. Review what size pots you're tending to win/lose and what kind of hands you're getting all of the money in with.
Focus on what the other guys are doing.
Focus on playing good seats at good tables.
Learn 6 max.
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Turska
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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SB seems to be a problem with VPIP 43%
and -247 dollars.
Ive been struggling with same problems. Seems like
opponents know when I flop the set because
everyone is folding. And when they chase they catch
and I end up calling river bets.
I think Ongame got A LOT tougher after US ban. I
have to think of moving...
T.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Turska
Seems likeopponents know when I flop the set because
everyone is folding.
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Idenity the raise pre-flop-bet-the-flop-shutdown-if-called-robots and start making loose calls, loose raises and take a way a pot from them here and there. I've been making more money doing that that I have playing against the donks it seems in the last month. Then again, I can't seem to catch $*&^ for cards.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Turska
SB seems to be a problem with VPIP 43%
and -247 dollars.
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On second thought, I just looked at my 6 max stats and I'm running a lower VP$IP than him and I'll make some darn loose calls when I think there are fish in the waters.
Maybe a leak, but I doubt it gets him stupid broke.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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ok. yeah the small blind play looks pretty bad. it paid off completing back when everyone was a weak tighty (bonus whores). it has developed into a bad habit of mine. plus that doesnt accurately show how many times i call a raise from the SB.
thanks for your comments & suggestions Fnord, lots of things to think about and i'll continue to review them. I was thinking about 6max, since full ring (9max) degenerates into 6max so often. plus people might actually pay off my sets at short handed. and some of this is due to running bad. not being able to lie down overpairs, hitting flushes v fh's..
right now im enjoying actually getting pokeracehud set up *just* right. there are a ton of stats and new things to think about. im also going to cut down from 8 tables to 4 or 6.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Ignore that results-oriented bullshit about your blind play.
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I don't even remember off the top of my head what a desirable loss rate is in the blinds. My comment was based on the fact that he's playing way more hands in the blinds than just about any big winner that I've heard of, and had nothing to do with his results. Give me a break.
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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replace graph with 
Moving to Full tilt from Ongame nust be pretty hard, Ongame 100 and 200NL 5 max was a gold mine. At full tilt it is like 5 TAGs and a fish at a table :-/. I'd move to bodog.
It sucks, you are only in so many big pots and when you lose those, especially > 100bbs deep it really stings. Ride it out.
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Triptan3s
. I'd move to bodog.
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Grr...don't be giving up the secrets.  But yea, I agree, Bodog. And don't forget to get RB before signing up.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
I don't even remember off the top of my head what a desirable loss rate is in the blinds. My comment was based on the fact that he's playing way more hands in the blinds than just about any big winner that I've heard of, and had nothing to do with his results. Give me a break.
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I am quite loose from the blinds and it works well for me. I used
to be even loser from the blinds at lower stakes with good results.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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My BB rate is currently -0.04 at 6max.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Ignore that results-oriented bullshit about your blind play.
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I don't even remember off the top of my head what a desirable loss rate is in the blinds. My comment was based on the fact that he's playing way more hands in the blinds than just about any big winner that I've heard of, and had nothing to do with his results. Give me a break. |
It's just that people monkey around with stuff like their pre-flop ranges from the blinds when they run bad, rather than figuring if they just ran bad and/or aspects of their game that are a lot more important but can't be captured via statistical software.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
It's just that people monkey around with stuff like their pre-flop ranges from the blinds when they run bad, rather than figuring if they just ran bad and/or aspects of their game that are a lot more important but can't be captured via statistical software.
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Totally agreed. Most of the essential skills can't usually be read from stats alone.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i think you are, and always have been, too loose
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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When you're losing big pots are you able to recognize if you were outplayed? Are they hands you look at afterwards and feel you should have been able to get away from them?
Like everyone says, it is mostly varience. The key to these times is to lose the least money possible.
When you first started posting here you were on a tremendous upswing. Now that the cards aren't falling your way everytime you are going to have to adjust poor aspects of your game that weren't apparent before.
I can't comment much on your numbers because I've never used these programs or paid much attention to what they mean to you guys. But I think you might be a case where you don't really know how to lose. LEARN TO FOLD. Get away from your marginal hands that are beat. Don't convince yourself you have the best hand. Accept the fact that as shitty as it is, your kings have been cracked by a flopped ace for the 10th time in a row. While the cards don't fall in your favor this will minimalize your losses.
Sorry if I'm wrong on these assumptions, but you're a fairly new player and this was something that helped me when I was newer and seemed to lose fast like this.
We can also put our HU matches on hold and that should help your winrate immensley. :P
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
The key to these times is to stay aggressive, yet don't tilt and keep perspective.
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FYP
Folding too much, missing value and not following through with threatened agression often enough are leaks too.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Yeah, thanks, I came off like I was pushing weak-tight play. The point is, stay objective, don't reason that you're ahead. Reason who might be ahead. Don't start paying off too much for draws etc etc.
Start posting some questionable losing hands too.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i hate your UTG/UTG+1/UTG+2 vpip and vpip versus pfr stats.
If these were all 10/10 or something along those lines i dont think you have too many problems. 17% is a lot to put in from ep IMO. The rest looks like a shitty run of cards to be fairly truthfull. SB is each to their own imo. Im quite tight but very aggressive in the sb, whereas i know people have equal success playing more hands.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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IMO folding too much >>> calling too much. Weak-tight is fine when you have confidence problems. And confidence problems lead to not trusting your reads and not thinking straight. So play like a nit until you regain perspective..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
IMO folding too much >>> calling too much. Weak-tight is fine when you have confidence problems. And confidence problems lead to not trusting your reads and not thinking straight. So play like a nit until you regain perspective..
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good comment. it didnt take me very long to get a bit more confidence back. i was trying to force too many hands.. the neat thing about pahud is seeing that most people fold >70% to cbets, so when they c/r me or raise me i can let go of my hand a lot easier.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i think you are, and always have been, too loose
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i know. i was addicted to unsuited connectors/gappers and flopping str8s. they paid off at pokerroom. anyways i am cutting back to more ideal vpip/pfr for full ring.. 18/9?
what's your suggestion?
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Yeah, thanks, I came off like I was pushing weak-tight play. The point is, stay objective, don't reason that you're ahead. Reason who might be ahead. Don't start paying off too much for draws etc etc.
Start posting some questionable losing hands too.
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yeah i was talking myself into some pretty bad calls.. i can think of a 3 or 4 river minraises that i called, knowing they had a FH and i had a flush. im going to stop chasing those hands by cutting out Axs anyway. not just on the river but flop/turn as well.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
i hate your UTG/UTG+1/UTG+2 vpip and vpip versus pfr stats.
If these were all 10/10 or something along those lines i dont think you have too many problems. 17% is a lot to put in from ep IMO. The rest looks like a shitty run of cards to be fairly truthfull. SB is each to their own imo. Im quite tight but very aggressive in the sb, whereas i know people have equal success playing more hands.
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no doubt. good call. im was limping too many sc's Axs, suited broadways EP.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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my advice:
-stop raising out of the blinds with AJ. I barely even play AJo unless i in a really favorable position (ie folded to me on cutoff), which is just a preference. But look at your $ at showdown percentage, it's like 25%! That just sucks.
- stop even playing 86o unless you are on the button or CO and you're raising.
-Stop taking your raised mid-low PP's to far (9's or below), It's fine to raise them if you play them well postflop, which it doesn't look like you are doing. Then again, that could just be with the 8's, what are your other PP stats?
However, even with saying all this, the fact that you are losing is probably varience. But the reason that the varience is so huge is the fact you are really loose. I think you can definitely win with the stats you are running, but if you tighten up it will be more profitable, IMO.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
- stop even playing 86o unless you are on the button or CO and you're raising.
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But it's a MONSTER s00ted!
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=4946669
Terry, have you tried this yet? I think a couple numbers are ascew. Definitly the SB, and it'll show how your doing with SC, USC, USGappeers and such. You may be pissing chips now that you have moved to another site and the play is different. You need to go back to 18/9 and look for the openings in their game. Not all fish are in freshwater, some eat different bait, some need different action. You need to find their weekness on their home.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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thanks guys. im now playing 18/9 and getting better luck. thanks for the advice/support.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
- stop even playing 86o unless you are on the button or CO and you're raising.
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But it's a MONSTER s00ted!
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LOLZ. laughing at you because i have made almost the same amount of money in half the hands playing 50 and 100 NL. Yeah, i'm ballin'
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Elexshun
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Da planet Earf
Posts: 46
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What poker program tracks things in the way his post displays, I would like to get this. It would be interesting to adjust your play based on simply stats alone. In this case I would recommend Playing your Sb and BB only if you have very decent hands. Also 86 s is a tremendous hand but make sure you are calling from position. Or as usually play aggressively with it if you are out of position if you have a viable draw such as 874 679 859 or 887 make sure you make a suspicious bet with this one that will induce raises ie a small bet or overly large ......... small bet is vs bad players big is vs good ones !!!!!!!!!
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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It's called Poker Tracker. I'm pretty sure that if you go to the Tools of Poker forum, you'll get a lot of information on it.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Elexshun
What poker program tracks things in the way his post displays, I would like to get this. It would be interesting to adjust your play based on simply stats alone. In this case I would recommend Playing your Sb and BB only if you have very decent hands. Also 86 s is a tremendous hand but make sure you are calling from position. Or as usually play aggressively with it if you are out of position if you have a viable draw such as 874 679 859 or 887 make sure you make a suspicious bet with this one that will induce raises ie a small bet or overly large ......... small bet is vs bad players big is vs good ones !!!!!!!!!
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86s is not a tremendous hand.
You should play draws more aggressivley with position.
You do not want to get raised out of the pot when you have a good draw so a large raise from villain is a bad thing.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Elexshun
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Da planet Earf
Posts: 46
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Yes I think I worded that horribly. 86 can be tremendous but only play it against raises if you have position. That is what I meant
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
86s is not a tremendous hand.
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Nit.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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suited connectors are WAY WAY overrated.
nit play is WAY WAY underrated.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I actually agree.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i dont.
New thread please. 
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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Just checking in from Mexico and dare I say it "Terry is a mere mortal" and thank god I´m not the only one who had/has a hard time on Full Tilt.
Your success is part of my inspiration. Keep at it!
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